Is Rob Cosman dovetail seminar worth the cost?

[Robert Joseph]

Another way-

Self taught with the aid of a library book from the late 1800's.....but I cheated. I started out using a power scroll saw, but I imagine you could use a band saw, table saw or even hand held jig saw. Point was, I learned how to layout and where/how to cut first then moved on to a dovetail saw and chisels. Did two chests of drawers and a dresser with the power before moving to hand cutting.

Then it was just a matter of learning to saw and chisel straight.

[Jim Neeley]

This thread reminds me of a comment made to me by a honest-to-goodness brain surgeon I met.

Knowing some of the "miracle cases" he'd performed, I told him I really admired his skills. His response? "Brain surgery isn't hard. You just have to know where to cut and how to sew!"

That's what led me to want to migrate from pure power into more neander work. I figured if he could learn to cut brains, I should be able to <eventually> learn to cut dovetails!!

[Jim Koepke]

There are a pair of instructive videos on cutting dovetails at woodtreks.com.

Craig Vandall Stevens is a cabinet maker and demonstrates making dovetails. I do not recall exactly what tip it was I picked up there, but did find it useful.

He works from the inside of the joint when he is sawing because he is using a pull saw. Earlier my comment was to saw from the outside. This is when using a push cut saw.

jtk

[Josh Rudolph]

Hi,

I I have actually challenged my self to make a dovetail-a-day. Unfortunately my day 3 dovetails aren't that much different from my day 18 dovetails!

My local woodcraft is hosting Rob Cosman in June, and there is a 4hr seminar that has some open spots. I was told that this really isn't a hands-on type of session, but mostly Rob teaching and taking questions. The cost is $75.

Has anyone done this before? Was it helpful? Is there somewhere else I should be looking for some tutelage?

Thanks!
Chris

Chris,

Keep up the dovetail-a-day. I did it for about a month. What worked best for me was learning to leave my line and sneaking up on the fit. I don't know why I felt I needed to get it done on the first fitting. Now I think I can cut a decent functional dovetail. The one thing that made things easier for me was after WIA and watching Klausz cut his dovetails. He really presents it in a very simple manner and reminds you that they don't have to be air-tight like we all strive to achieve. He told us to look at valuable antiques and see what those DT's look like. After doing the DT-a-day I made the Shaker inspired stepstool that Thomas MacDonald does. It was a good project at the end of the exercise and the results were good enough for me to be willing to give it as a Christmas present.

I cut DT's either method. For Drawers inside I will use pins first. Fro half-blinds and show DT's I will do tails first.

The tails first method, I learned from Cosman's video. His video is a good investment if your teaching yourself IMO.

To answer your question...I would buy a video over the Woodcraft seminar. I would be too concerned of the seminar being an infomercial. However...if I ever get the chance to take an independent Cosman class, I will do it in a blink of an eye.

Good luck,
Josh

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I suppose that I should add that those with whom I spoke that were at a Woodcraft seminar with Rob were all very pleased with the seminar and happy that they were there (I spoke with three people that were there). I paid for the class and intended to attend, but I had direct exposure to swine flue and then became ill, so I skipped so as to not expose others; I was very sad.

[Ed Looney]

Yes it's worth the money. Go to any of Rob's classes if you get a chance. I went to the two day dovetail class. On the Friday before the class my dovetails were horrible. By the end of the class on Sunday this is what the hand tool coach had me doing.
Education is going to cost you something. Trial and error will work but it usually produces more frustration than it does quality education. Someone coaching you past your mistakes produces faster results which makes the learning process enjoyable.

Ed

[Chris Atzinger]

Ed,

Those look perfect!

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I am never disappointed with the responses I get around here! I agree with ed, that education is going to cost, and I have absolutely no problem with that (working on degree #3!). The enrollment for this class is capped at 16, so it is small enough, plus it is apparently a pre-requisite for his Dovetail Degree 2-day course (seriously?). I went ahead and signed up today. I now have additional motivation to make that shooting board I have been putting off.

Thanks!
Chris

[Josh Rudolph]

Ed,

I went ahead and signed up today.

Chris,

Please let us know how the seminar goes.

Thanks,
Josh

[Mick Zelaska]

I just took Rob's hand plane class at Woodcraft with 7 people in the class. Later that day taught a 4 hour hand-cut dovetails class with 6 people. The Woodcraft people told me he likes to keep his classes small.

[Mike Cogswell]

I just the seminar and didn't find it all that useful. A good bit of the time was basically advertisements for his tools and his explanations of why every other toolmakers products are wrong. There was zero hands-on for the students. I was quite disappointed.

His two day class might be a lot better - but it's also a LOT more expensive.

Buy a good DVD - you'll be able to watch it over and over.

[Phillip J Allen]

Last year I took Rob's 2 day dove tail class. Two long 12 hour days by the way. I won't kid you for a second that it wasn't cheap. But at the end of the day I can now say that I can make a dove tail that I am proud of. Before I couldn't.

And if you have the money, spending it only hurts once but you can benefit from it over and over. There's my two cents.

[Chris Atzinger]

I just did the 4 hour seminar, but it was a small group, maybe just 4 of us. There was a little hands-on, where we were sawing straight lines, etc.. We were definitely not cutting dovetails. There were a few asides about the benefits of his tools, but that's to be expected. He is making a living and supporting a family. I didn't mind it. Rob was very personable, though and there was lots of Q&A and feedback.

I wouldn't say I was able to cut dovetails I was proud of after the seminar, but that really wasn't the point of the seminar. That's what the two day class is about. I did get some good pointers though, and the price wasn't bad. I would strongly consider doing the 2 day.

Rob seems to be a pretty likeable guy. I have seen him make some posts around here, that confirmed that as well. At the end of the day, like everything else, the more I do something, the easier it gets.

Good luck!
Chris

[george wilson]

Ed,good looking dovetails,especially since they are seen magnified. I think $75.00 is a low price,too. There's the cost of food,motel,too,but the class cost is pretty reasonable. I have thought of giving classes myself,but I'd have to destroy my machine shop area to install benches. Just too much of a tool pig(and machine tool pig,too!!)

[Carl Beckett]

A philosophical approach:

They say money and material things are not the path to happiness (by 'they', I mean various large research articles). That people in general gain a lot more satisfaction from 'experiences'. These create memories that are ever lasting (well... at least for some last a long time - I have young children and cant remember past last Tuesday)

So spending money on the 'experience' of a class that you would enjoy (and learning new skills), could be much more rewarding than upping the 'tool budget'.

And something that was pointed out to me recently that seemed profound. I was pressing to finish a project when I was asked by a non woodworking friend:

'Its a hobby, why do you want to get the project done? If you enjoy it, you want to drag it out dont you?"

[Jim Neeley]

A philosophical approach:

They say money and material things are not the path to happiness (by 'they', I mean various large research articles). That people in general gain a lot more satisfaction from 'experiences'. These create memories that are ever lasting (well... at least for some last a long time - I have young children and cant remember past last Tuesday)

So spending money on the 'experience' of a class that you would enjoy (and learning new skills), could be much more rewarding than upping the 'tool budget'.

And something that was pointed out to me recently that seemed profound. I was pressing to finish a project when I was asked by a non woodworking friend:

'Its a hobby, why do you want to get the project done? If you enjoy it, you want to drag it out dont you?"

+5, Carl... For me, woodworking is driven by far more by the *process* and doing those things by hand that I enjoy doing than by the speed or quantity of results. It's this very thing that lead me from spending 80% of my time using power tools to 80% working by hand.

Likewise Normite vs. Neanderthal isn't a theological issue; depending on the task at hand and how I feel that day I may perform a task by hand or power, whatever feels like more fun that day. As a result, as time goes on, more and more is done by hand.

If speed were my sole criteria, my dovetail saw would be mostly for show and my Katie jig and Incra fence would get a lot more use. The Katie and Incra just don't provide the "fun factor" of hand-cut joints.

Just my $0.02.. YMMV.

Jim in Alaska