Time for a new table saw....need some help.

[David Kumm]

Quote "BTW, I see no reason why my Sawstop won't still be cutting wood in 40 years. I'd put it up against "Old Quality" any day."

The sawstop may be cutting in 40 years and is a great saw from a safety standpoint and well built for the price, but it can't compare to the "old quality" available at a $4000 price. You can get a rehabbed Oliver 88, 270, or a Northfield 4 for that. The new Northfields go for in excess of $13000. Delta Rockwell 12-14 and Powermatic 72, both a step or three down go for less but still have trunnions and castings huge in comparison to current offerings. Used Altendorfs can be found as well if you are patient and a little lucky. Safety is the reason to consider sawstop and in comparison to similar new saws it is a standout. Most comparable are coming out of China so the labor savings helps the price point. Comparing quality among them is fair, but don't think they are in the same league quality wise at a $4000 price as the old stuff selling for that. Dave

[C Scott McDonald]

I am really enjoying my Hammer k3 winner. It has made woodworking fun again compared to the old contractors saw I had.

[Doug Colombo]

It looks like you really want to go with the SS - go for it - I am sure that you will be happy. I just got a new TS about 3 months ago and was looking at SS, Grizzly, PM, and Delta. I found myself getting drawn back to the new Delta Unisaw each time I would look at the saws. I struggled and then figured that if I kept going back to the same saw, it was time to buy it. I love it and have never looked back. Sounds like you may be there with the SS.

[David Hostetler]

Since it fits in your budget, if you can cope with the way the company does business, get the SawStop... They are a nice saw with a great safety feature, but they are spendy...

Both Woodcraft and Rockler in my area carry them. I do not think you can buy them online though...

[Mike Henderson]

Since it fits in your budget, if you can cope with the way the company does business, get the SawStop... They are a nice saw with a great safety feature, but they are spendy...

Both Woodcraft and Rockler in my area carry them. I do not think you can buy them online though...

I have a SawStop and don't regret buying it. It's a quality saw and I like the insurance against cutting off my fingers.

I don't know what the reference to "the way the company does business" refers to. I've found the company to be quite good - good product, good support, no problems at all.

Mike

[Paul McGaha]

Hi Robert,

Welcome to Sawmill Creek.

As for a suggestion on buying a new table saw, I have about an 8 year old Unisaw that I bought new. I doubt I will ever replace it but if if did I think I would take a hard look at something like the Hammer K3 or similar.

Good luck with your purchase.

PHM

[John Coloccia]

If I had it to do over again, I would have probably bought a combination Euro Slider and Jointer/Planer....maybe even with a shaper in there. I have a SS Contractor saw, btw, because the PCS was not available at the time...it has all the upgrades on it that can be had but I wish the PCS were available at the time!

If I had to do it all over again and I couldn't get a slider for whatever reason, I can't think of any reason in the world I would buy anything but another SawStop. The new Delta Unisaw is pretty hot too, but I would lean towards the SS.

[rick sawyers]

I got a Hammer K3 with the 75 inch slide capacity and 51 inch rip a few months ago. It was the best decision I could make. It is such a time saver and so accurate. I love the fact that I can cut numerous precision cross cuts in a fration of the time thanks to the flip stop and the sliding tables accuracy.
Also it is useful when your sliding compount miter saws capacity is unable to be used you can use the K3 to easily cut a long angle very quickly with the adjustable mite on the crosscut fence.
In terms of safety I think it has to be almost as safe as the saw-stop because you and your fingers are usually off to the side and don't have to worry about being in the path of kick-back. It took a little getting used to but I love the saw and it has really allowed me to speed up the production process in my one man shop.
I would recommend you consider the upgrade to the Hammer K3 even though the price is about 5500 with delivery and the extras.

[McKay Sleight]

Robert, I will tell you up front that I am not a fan of the SS. I taught at a high school and for that reason I liked the peace of mind that a SS gives you. (I did find that numerous firings occurred because the students got lazy with the safety instruction and took chances that were unacceptable). We had 3 SS and a Laguna slider. The SS switches have gone bad, the break needs to be FINELY adjusted after each blade change, you are NOT able to switch between a saw and dado blade w/o changing the break. I visited the school last week where I retired from, and the instructor asked me if I had ever had the saw turn itself on. (it did turn on by itself when he was about 10 feet away). As an educator, education is better than any technology. The quality of Hammer, Rojek et.al. are all substantially better and 30 years down the road you will have a saw that will turn on and run when the SS may or may not. I found that the machining of the SS was not that good and that the rams, (the same type that hold up the back window of your car), that assist in the raising and lowering of the blade and tilt of the blade wore out and the saw was difficult to adjust. The main motor drive belt is expensive and difficult to replace. I had to have a tech. come and put mine in. This was very unusual because I am very good at working on WW machines. Get better education, exercise proper safety procedures and buy a saw that you can pass on to two or three other generations.

[Paul Ryan]

I own 1 of the 1st PCS saws out there and I am still very happy with it. The brake has never fired and I plan on keeping it that way. It has not changed my saftey habits at all either. I have used a slider recently and since it is such a change it is hard to be objective. I still prefer the american style saw because that is what I am used to I guess. I find it easier to do some cuts. The sliding design is much safer than the american design but there still is nothing to stop the blade. So if you ask me the sawstop is still the safest saw out there. Now if I had unlimited space in my shop and in my bank account I would own both a slider and a sawstop. You cant beat the slider for sheet goods. But the take up considerable more room than my 36" sawstop. Even the smaller K3 saws. And I think they are inferior for some operations like continuous ripping of smaller stock, and fine tuning joints. Just my opinion but if I had to choose one it would be the sawstop.

[Homer Faucett]

I find the criticism of the SS reliability surprising, as I have had an ICS now for over 4 years in an unheated, uninsulated, detached barn. Not exactly ideal conditions. Further, I have used it in below freezing temperatures, humid weather, and for a variety of situations in between. I've never had the saw switch itself on. I have never had a problem getting it to switch the saw off. Further, the belts and blade adjustment mechanisms work as well now as when it was bought. Changing blades is a snap, and does not require the FINE adjustment suggested above--simply place a nickle between the blade and brake, adjust the brake and blade to just touch both, lock down, and go. Fit and finish are every bit as good on the SS as the 1953 Unisaw I had.

The cast iron on the SS does tend to rust a bit more quickly than the Unisaw top under humid conditions, though. I can see where swapping out the dado cartridge is a drawback, but I never bought a dado cartridge or blade for my SS. I use a monster RAS for dados.

If you're concerned about your fingers and want an American style tablesaw, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the SS. I bought mine when I was 29 for the exact same reasons . . . although my wife was the one pushing for me to do so. I have no regrets, and no desire to upgrade to a slider, but that's a personal preference, IMHO. If I was starting over, I might consider a used combo machine with a J/P and shaper built in, but there are trade-offs you make there, as well. Go with your gut, make the decision, and proceed with making the sawdust. Never look back.

Good luck.

[Chuong Nguyen]

Just want to throw this out there, since no one's mentioned it. For me, money was/is an object, so I opted for the Jet Deluxe Xacta saw, during one those Jet/PM sales.
It includes the modern saftey features, and is very easy to remove and install it, which is a plus for me, since I will actually use it (and may not have if it was a royal pain).
It also has a pretty decent under the table dust collection.
Looking back, I should've went with the PM 2000 since it has built in 4 swivel casters, which would be very useful in my small shop. I have my Jet on a mobile base, but only one end swivels. I'm getting ready to fabricate a base with 4 swiveles.

[Kent A Bathurst]

... I have about an 8 year old Unisaw that I bought new. I doubt I will ever replace it but if if did I think I would take a hard look at something like the Hammer K3 or similar. ..

Ditto on everything Paul says, with modifications: My Uni is 13 years old; the slider won't fit in my current basement workshop, but that is the only thing that would stop me from that option, but, like Paul, I doubt I'll ever need another TS.

Well-respected people, such as Mike H above, attest to the quality of the SS, outside of the hotdog thing. Personally, I just have a bit of a bad taste in my mouth about the company - there seems to be a whiff of arrogance about them, but that's just me - no reason to fault the product.

Plus - after 25 years living in Michigan, constantly exposed those ubiquitous U of M grads, I am fairly well innoculated against arrogance from the ankle-biters - BOOM goes the dynamite!!

[Will Blick]

David offered great advise.... best choice depends on what size pieces you are cutting....

Other than the added cost, I doubt anyone today would regret a slider over a standard Cabinet Saw...
I have a PM2000, good solid saw, but if I had to buy again, it would clearly be a small slider....which IMO, is the weakness of cabinet saws...you are constantly manipulating ways to make the table larger...again, this assumes you cut wood larger than say 12" on cross cut and 20" on RIP cuts.. just wingin numbers...the point is, for small wood, like making doll houses, a slider offers no advantages (unless you are starting with big sheets)... but if you are building cabinets, sliders are the ticket.... fine furniture, well, between slider and CS. BTW, interesting comments about SS, thx for sharing... I would suggest that a slider would also be an amazing safety feature by the way its used, so it has tremendous safety value built-in, but not advertised...

[john lawson]

I have experience with most of the saws mentioned in this thread and would like to add a few comments about their features and overall safety.

First, I own a Rojek combo machine with a slider and riving knife. It is great and would buy one again. I also own an older Unisaw without a riving knife that I use as a backup saw and for plywood ripping. It works very well, but without the riving knife I don't use it as often as the Rojek. When our local woodworking guild was setting up their shop (and I bought most of the tools) we opted for two Sawstops; one for normal operations and one as a dedicated dado saw. In three years we have "saved" two fingers/hands with the Sawstops. We have also had 3 other instances of firing the cartridge when the operator hit metal or did something else wrong. If we had not had the Sawstops I truly believe we would have been sued out of existence. So, I am a big proponent of the Sawstop, but I still love my Rojek slider.

One other thing I would like to comment on. Several people mentioned that a Sawstop would not prevent "kickback". While nothing will prevent all kickbacks, a riving knife set properly will prevent almost all kickbacks. There are some good videos on Youtube that show kickback in slow motion, and a riving knife is a great safety tool.

So, get a Sawstop if you can afford it, or get a slider if you think you need the slider table option, but above all make sure you get a riving knife and set it properly.

good luck

john