Charlesworth vs Coseman Videos

[george wilson]

Can you buy less than a 1# can for $65.70 ?

[Jim Koepke]

PS Back at ya. What makes you think those contractors didn't watch DYI or Youtube?

Ed

Well, at least the ones that were around before the Youtube or the DIY Network didn't watch.

BTW, Someone said "learn to do it yourself" didn't have a market.

It seems like there isn't any demand for the "learn it all by yourself kit".

My point is not about the quality of DIY.

My point is that there is a rather big market for the learn to do it yourself market.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

There have been a couple of times that I posted something wanted critical discussion, and guidance on design especially, and george was the only person to speak up.

Specifically on saw handles and planes, and it was an issue where the stuff looked OK, but I knew it didn't look like I wanted it to but I wasn't exactly sure why. There were too many people who wanted to be polite, which is nice, but not always productive.

Then there might be some of us who miss your post and wouldn't have anything to add other than "looks good."

I have no idea of all the details of a saw handle. I have learned a little from George's comments on what makes a strong and traditional saw handle.

Sometime in the future, I will make a saw handle or two. Currently my garden, chickens and finding wood for next winter has my time fairly well occupied.

jtk

[Robert Miller]

I think that $29 bucks is a bargain for about an hours instructional DVD from a pro that I can keep studying, be it Rob Cosman or David Charlesworth . All this carping about who is better etc. is just foolish IMHO. As far as arguing about quality tools , I'll fall back on the Master, James Krenov who said:

" You can't tune a Stradivarius, with a monkey wrench"

[george wilson]

There seems to be carping about several issues going on.Who is better,DO you need classes,etc..

[john brenton]

When I would do remodels on my own time I would go into the walls and under these houses built in the 30's and 40's, and with the exception of very few homes, they all displayed total craftsmanship. The cast iron piping was almost always perfectly graded, the hubs carefully lead caulked, and thoughtfully strapped. The framing all fit flawlessly and cleanly.

After filling in for a lead plumber on the tract homes I swore I'd never buy a new home. There are very few contractors that really give a hoot, and even fewer employees that do. The employees that do care either get rushed to do crud work, or have some kind of substance abuse problem that hinders them. Anywho, here I am in a house built in 2008. I was the first one on the block and as I watched the other homes on the street being built my biggest fears were confirmed. Absolute garbage. No supervision, inspectors that were in and out in 1 minute, etc etc.

There's my rant.

If there is anyone I HATE working with,it is a contractor. I spent weeks designing my new shop building. Repeatedly I had to make them go back and re do stuff because they didn't follow the drawings. They put the windows in about a foot off the ground. They made the stair too steep. The first day I came out here(wasn't living here yet),and found the bricklayers putting the garage door in the wrong place. They hadn't been given the latest drawings,which I HAD given the contractor a week or 2 before. The building is a quality building,but I did pay a premium price for it,and it was uphill all the way. I made them do everything right.

Years before we got this house,I had trouble with painters painting my old house. I wanted the paint scraped from the glass where they carelessly slopped paint on it."I don't see why I should be punished" one said. Heck!! I didn't know I was punishing him. I thought I was employing him!!

Most of the time I have been lucky enough to hire Williamsburg maintenance men. They work to a higher standard,and do not leave their mess laying around. I had even had a painter spill a gallon of red paint on the concrete driveway,and just leave it there. I think painters are really the worst of the contractors I dealt with in getting this house refurbished. I finally fired one guy and finished up myself.

[Jim Neeley]

I think that $29 bucks is a bargain for about an hours instructional DVD from a pro that I can keep studying, be it Rob Cosman or David Charlesworth . All this carping about who is better etc. is just foolish IMHO. As far as arguing about quality tools , I'll fall back on the Master, James Krenov who said:

" You can't tune a Stradivarius, with a monkey wrench"

I think you're dead on regarding an hour of detailed hands on video for about $30 being a great value.. for those (like me) who are visual learners. For those who learn based on reading books.. tinkering in the shop or other techniques, it may not have as much value...

As for me, I'll choose watching (or rewatching) a WW video after a day in the shop.. or when I get home too late to head down there.

I further agree the "who is best" is foolish... and that Krenov quote is great!

[Ed Looney]

I think that $29 bucks is a bargain for about an hours instructional DVD from a pro that I can keep studying, be it Rob Cosman or David Charlesworth . All this carping about who is better etc. is just foolish IMHO. As far as arguing about quality tools , I'll fall back on the Master, James Krenov who said:

" You can't tune a Stradivarius, with a monkey wrench"

Actually I think you are right on the money about who is better. Who is better depends on how one views a dovetail joint and where you want to go with your craft. If a person views a dovetail as utilitarian and necessary to properly join wood at right angles then Frank Klausz or Jim Kingshott are good. If one likes Japanese tools then I recommend Kingshott because his work utilizes Japanese chisels. If a person mixes hand and power tools and wants to make utilitarian dovetails then Klausz is good. However if a person views a dovetail joint as not only being structural but as a design feature (craftsman furniture influence) Then I recommend Rob Cosman. Rob elevates the dovetail to a design feature that is celebrated for it's beauty as well as strength. Green and Green as well as Stickley furniture are good examples of celebrating joinery as a design feature.
None of these men make bad dovetails but their philosophy on the purpose of the dovetail is made evident by their instruction. Can someone watch all three and learn from all of them? Yes absolutely.

PS I haven't gotten the Charlesworth Dovetail DVD yet, I bet it is good. I hope to have a copy of it soon.

Ed Looney

[Ed Looney]

Jim
I will gladly recognize that people are hungry for skill. People want the skill to do it on their own. The determining factor is how fast do you want it and how refined do you want it to be once you get some of it.

Ed

[Paul Incognito]

Jim
I will gladly recognize that people are hungry for skill. People want the skill to do it on their own. The determining factor is how fast do you want it and how refined do you want it to be once you get some of it.

Ed

As a full time remodeling contractor, I'll correct you. People aren't hungry for skill, they're trying to save a buck.
I've come behind some homeowner remodels (I'm working on one right now) that were downright scary. Jacks for structural headers that were never posted down, undersized framing, live wires cut, taped and buried behind drywall, plumbing that would make Rube Goldberg shudder, it goes on and on.
I agree with John, the craftsmanship of yesterday is all but gone. It's been replaced with low bid subcontractors that cut corners ether because they have to in order to make money at the bid price or because they were incompetent to begin with.
I could go on...
Paul

[george wilson]

I can vouch for that,Paul. I have found a load of incompetent home brewed stuff that has been done to this 1949 house. Bad wiring and all. All the doors had been sawn off about 1 1/2" short probably in the 70's to install shag carpeting. I honestly think they were sawn off with a chain saw. I planed all the door bottoms smooth and added wood back on. Then,I sanded them so the new wood wouldn't show when painted. Then,the doors turned out to be so much trouble to get the many coats of old paint off of,I bought all new doors and installed them myself. The kitchen had 4 layers of different crud we had to scrape off. There was just a ton of stuff we had to do to get the house back in shape. Most of it caused by messes made by some jack leg idiot.

[Ed Looney]

As a full time remodeling contractor, I'll correct you. People aren't hungry for skill, they're trying to save a buck.
Paul

Paul
I will accept a partial correction because there are some that are only motivated by saving that buck. But I ask you to recognize that the buck sword has two sides. One side is saving a buck the other is making a quick buck. Please recognize that there are contractors out there who are in it for a quick buck and that may motivate people like me to get the skills so they can at least get the job done right. A quick buck and craftsmanship don't go well together so it is hard to find anyone who will do it to my standards. Nothing worse than paying someone to do it wrong. That is why I am one of those who are hungry for the skills to do the job right. To be honest I don't believe that the hungary for skills description above is totally exclusive to me. There are those who are so disgusted with finding a competent contractor that in desperation seek the skills to get the job done right.

Ed Looney

[Eddie Darby]

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It's my opinion Rob that much of the push back that you get from people, (myself included) on these forums has to do with the delivery and tone of your dialogue. I don't think that it is any coincidence that the other instructors mentioned in this thread tend to let their "product" speak for itself - they rarely if ever engage in a thread like you do and when they do they do so graciously and respectfully regardless of the origianal poster's position. I have found these qualities lacking in your responses.

Perhaps other instructors have a 'fear' of replying to a thread that is aimed at assassinating their character, and solely started for the purpose of baiting and trapping.
Thread title: "Charlesworth vs Coseman Videos" says it all.

The internet is full of people who are spreading the "spirit of division", some without even realizing it or intending it on purpose, others not so innocent.
I think they had them back in the old days too, the same bunch chasing and hampering St. Paul, with signs I am for Peter, or Apollos, I am for Jesus etc.
Yes we have threads like "Thread: Worksharp vs veritas power sharpener " but surely there is a difference between comparing machines, and comparing people.

How do I benefit from someone's opinion about what they 'like' or 'dislike'? Even if they preface it with IMHO.
Just because someone 'likes' mustard on their hot dog, isn't going to help someone else decide for the first time if they should 'like' mustard as well.

I have learned, over the years, from numerous instructors.
From all different walks of life, and yes some I enjoyed more than others, but to ALL I owe a debt of gratitude to them, for sharing their Time, Treasure, and Talent, regardless of the value of that instruction.

If any of these instructors ever started a thread asking for my opinion, so that they could become better instructors, and if I thought my opinion was of some value, then I would consider giving it, but I would never consider giving it, when not asked first. To do so would be to enter into gossip, which has no good benefit for all involved.

Please Moderators, in the future when someone gives their opinion about someone else, and they were not asked by that person, shut down the thread right away, and save everybody a lot of negative consequences.

Sow to the wind, reap the whirlwind.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Ed, the original poster asked for recommendations on whose dvd to buy. We responded, perhaps not as graciously as we could have; but it was all response. And no, no way do many of us wait for the maker of such dvds to request our opinion. What would be the point? This forum exists because the posters want the opinions of other woodworkers.

Pam

[Johnny Kleso]

DARBY,
I dont like you saying it was my intent to start an arguement...
When I wrote that I didn't think people had axes to grind with one of the instructor because he had an opinion different that theirs..

People compare two different things on this forum several times a day here..
None I have ever read, where trying start an arguement in my opinion........
So why do you say my intent was to cause one?

In my mind your very belligerent person to say my intent was to make people argue..
My intent was to start a discussion on wood working Teachers and who makes the best DVDs to buy..

You brought the topic of religon up like you know something about it, yet you make false statements against me...