Buying a computer, should I get a Mac?

[Phil Thien]

So if I understand the logic right, if you have a boat with 100 holes in it and you have to spend your time bailing water out day after day, or, you could get a new boat with 1 hole in it, you'd keep the one with the 100 holes in it because the one with 1 hole will be getting more holes some time in the future, maybe?

I'll take the boat with 1 hole and worry about the other holes when they come to light. If you're really worried about MacDefender or MacGuard, run an anti-virus program on the Mac. They are readily available.

And you're assuming that all these issues are happening on the admin account. If the users aren't admin status, none of them are getting through.

Implying things like the PC has 100 security holes and the Mac has one just isn't true. The Mac likely has MORE security holes than the PC. They just haven't been exploited until now. They are beginning to get exploited.

In terms of the admin account, again, that is unfortunately not true. From my link above:

Before we dive into the details, let me make a brief comment here about “arbitrary code execution.” Arbitrary code execution is a euphemism for a successful buffer overflow.If you’re interested in learning more about buffer overflows, there is a decent write-up on Wikipedia. The outcome of a successful buffer overflow, is that a hacker gains control of the execution thread and can perform any number of actions, which may or may not include performing actions as the system’s administrator. With administrator privileges, a hacker may be able to install a Trojan. Even without administrator privileges, arbitrary code still executes with the user’s privileges, which provides more than enough opportunity to ruin someone’s day.

[Paul Ryan]

I will throw my .02 in. I have always owned PCs and don't plane on changing any time soon. I have very strong feelings against apple for a varity of reasons. I dont own an apple device or use any of there software. As a PC user I don't pay for virus protectors and dont regularly check for malware. In the 18 years I have owned my own computers I have only once been infected with a virus. That was due to friend surfing clothing optional web sites. I really think for the vast majority of users the malware/virus debate is blown way out of proportion. As I have always told my parents don't download anything you dont know about. And when ever you install anything make sure you read what is being installed. It is really common sense. And the web based e-mail providers like google and hotmail do very good job of catching virus' now days. If you get an email from someone you dont know or arent expecting dont open it. IMHO if you are a responsible internet user there is no reason to spend double on a mac when a PC will do everything the mac will and will last just as long. Buying PC's I can upgrade to the latest and greatest hardware in a couple of years and still have spent less money than the mac would have cost me initially.

[Phil Thien]

I really think for the vast majority of users the malware/virus debate is blown way out of proportion. As I have always told my parents don't download anything you dont know about. And when ever you install anything make sure you read what is being installed. It is really common sense. And the web based e-mail providers like google and hotmail do very good job of catching virus' now days.

75%+ of the infections we see hit people doing something as innocent as a Google search.

It has become a very common occurrence, IMHO. And I don't think it can be explained by risky behavior.

[Greg Peterson]

And when ever you install anything make sure you read what is being installed. It is really common sense.

A common tactic for malware and trojans is to trick users into believing they are installing an application when in fact they are installing the app they think they are getting PLUS the payload. You can read the fine print but it won't be there.

[Jim Becker]

I just made the move to an iMac myself, although I still run Windows 7 on it in a virtual machine for a few applications...such as Quicken and MS Office. The former because the Mac version "bites" and the latter because I own licenses for 6 machines for Office Home and Student. Professor Dr. SWMBO is also considering moving to a Mac.

That said, Windows 7 is a very robust environment and really brought the Windows world forward in many ways. If you do choose to stay with Windows, it's a very nice operating environment.

[Bryan Morgan]

I am in the market for a computer and I am going to buy a brand new and an upper end model. My needs are as follows
1. internet access
2. word processing
3. working with family photos and videos
4. drawing plans with autocad
My biggest gripes about my 2 current PCs is that after 2 to 3 years they get slow and have virus problems. So I am considering a Mac but having only owned PCs I am still skeptical as far as the price v. quality.
Thoughts, advice, experiences, I am all ears.

Look at this thread... see what I told you would happen with a question like that? Nerd rage!

[Greg Peterson]

I'll see your Nerd rage and raise you one SawStop!

[Brian Ashton]

Been reading this one and it seems to have gotten way off track to what the OP wants to know...

For me it's really simple. I have PC needs (No matter how much better anyone thinks a Mac is the world runs on PCs and most of the good software is only available to them) and I have Mac needs (they are better and far more risk free for average everyday surfing the net, time machine backup program is second to none, I have other apple hardware that all run and sync seamlessly...) so I bought a Macbook and loaded VMware Fusion on it so I could run any version of windows I wanted (presently WinXP and Win7), or the penguin for that matter and switch on the fly between them... That way I get all the computer worlds in one very stylish and neat package. Can't do that on a PC. Also the quality is better. Apple is in control of everything therefore there are very few teething pains. You don't have to wait for the revised model to come out to iron out most of the bugs because there are thousands of independent players making all the parts that make up a PC.

Now before all those that take offence to this opinion remember it's only an opinion about an inanimate object. It's not like I was saying you have ugly children... And I am speaking in general terms - OF COURSE THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS.

[Phil Thien]

Update: Just as I predicted (you don't need to be a rocket scientist to see this), the Mac malware issue has continued:
http://news.google.com/news/search?a...&q=mac+malware

MOST DISTURBING: Apple has instructed employees to act ignorant of the problem:
http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Order...ticle21693.htm

Apple's solution is apparently a daily update to a malware detection system (sort of like a built-in antivirus product). Unfortunately, as we've seen on PC's, that is a reactive response. Even top-notch heuristic analysis hasn't stopped outbreaks of new variants on Windows machines.

NONETHELESS, UPDATE THOSE MAC's. Check for updates every day for a while.

And you may want to point your DNS at OpenDNS, which tries to blacklist servers that have delivered malicious code in the past.

Here are instructions for configuring a Mac for the OpenDNS "Family Shield" service:
https://store.opendns.com/familyshield/setup/computer

Tell family/friends that have a Mac of the issue, so they can get the updates, etc., too. Pretending this isn't happening will make the problem 10x worse.

[Scott Shepherd]

Phil, you really seem to have an axe to grind on this.

First, the fix for it has been issued by Apple today, so if you update your OS today, then it will resolve the issue if you have it (which most people don't). It was well documented that apple people were not giving help with it because it doesn't fall under the scope of what they are instructed to answer on tech support lines.

Tell you what- call Microsoft and ask their tech support to help with a virus or malware. Let me know what you get. I can answer that for you. Nothing. They have no OS updates or software that removes it. You have to buy aftermarket products or download free programs online to remove and protect yourself on their systems.

How you seem to keep implying that's a better system is beyond me.

No one's said apple is perfect in this thread. There are issues with all systems, but to date, this is ONE piece of malware that's out there, impacting far less than 1% of users, and you keep elevating it like it's the same threat level as any PC counterpart. It's simply not true.

You should always keep your OS up to date, period. If you do that, you are still VERY safe. Can you get into an issue. Probably. But there's a huge difference between possible and probable. As a mac user, is it possible? Yes. Is it probable? No.

[John Coloccia]

Update: Just as I predicted (you don't need to be a rocket scientist to see this), the Mac malware issue has continued:
http://news.google.com/news/search?a...&q=mac+malware

MOST DISTURBING: Apple has instructed employees to act ignorant of the problem:
http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Order...ticle21693.htm

With all due respect, Phil, you're talking about one piece of Malware vs the thousands upon thousands of known PC exploits in the wild. This is sounding very Chicken Little-ish.

You've completely misrepresented the second article. The memo instructs the technicians not to confirm or deny that the Malware is installed on a particular machine, and that they shouldn't attempt to provide any further assistance. I don't know of any company on the planet that will sit there and remove viruses from your computer other than as a service from a place like Best Buy, and you will pay for it. What the memo does not say ANYWHERE is to act ignorant of the problem. That's just a complete fabrication.

[Neal Clayton]

the default windows install has security flaws
the default mac install has security flaws
the default linux install from the vast majority of distros has security flaws
even the default FreeBSD install has a couple

from someone who did this for a living for 7 years (web servers), you don't need to worry about the security flaws of the OS on a home pc, because guess what, they all have them.

the only difference in a mac and a PC is the price and the OS, the hardware is the same. the only reason to buy a mac is if you like the OS. if you are a windows user, you probably won't like the mac OS, simply because it's different. if you tend to fix things on your home computer on your own you will most definitely not like the mac OS, since documentation is very lacking.

if you're the type of person who suggests someone install linux for a solution to how to resize an image, you need to stop typing and go outside.
if you're the type of person who suggests someone buy a mac as a solution to how to turn a home video into a DVD, you also need to stop typing and go outside.

that pretty much sums up the OS debates.

fwiw i have two windows machines and a BSD file server at home, and a BSD colo for hosting a few remaining websites for friends.

as for linux having decades of secure reliability, wake me when distros stop leaving /tmp executable by default and having their port put the mysql socket in it. the only reason linux was 'secure' all of those years is because it didn't do anything useful, why write exploits for an OS that doesn't work and no one uses? now that it does do things, it has as many flaws to deal with as other server OSs do, the individual maintainers are just better at admitting to them.

[Phil Thien]

Phil, you really seem to have an axe to grind on this.

I'm just posting links to articles. No axe.

First, the fix for it has been issued by Apple today, so if you update your OS today, then it will resolve the issue if you have it (which most people don't). It was well documented that apple people were not giving help with it because it doesn't fall under the scope of what they are instructed to answer on tech support lines.

It doesn't work like that. The genie is out of the bottle, unfortunately. The source code will likely go through rapid iterations in order to side-step the Apple code designed to intercept it. The guys writing/releasing the garbage have fully updated Macs to test against, I guarantee you.

Tell you what- call Microsoft and ask their tech support to help with a virus or malware. Let me know what you get. I can answer that for you. Nothing. They have no OS updates or software that removes it. You have to buy aftermarket products or download free programs online to remove and protect yourself on their systems.

I don't disagree. Microsoft has not done enough to combat malware. I think they could do much more.

How you seem to keep implying that's a better system is beyond me.

NO, not implying MS is superior. There are many things I do for which I think the Mac is better suited.

No one's said apple is perfect in this thread. There are issues with all systems, but to date, this is ONE piece of malware that's out there, impacting far less than 1% of users, and you keep elevating it like it's the same threat level as any PC counterpart. It's simply not true.

You keep saying "one piece of malware." That is misleading. It has forked at lest five or six times. It has been seen with several different names, and several different behaviors.

You should always keep your OS up to date, period. If you do that, you are still VERY safe. Can you get into an issue. Probably. But there's a huge difference between possible and probable. As a mac user, is it possible? Yes. Is it probable? No.

Eight weeks ago, it wasn't possible. There was nothing out there. Now it is possible. Probable? I don't think you can say "no" to that.

[Phil Thien]

With all due respect, Phil, you're talking about one piece of Malware vs the thousands upon thousands of known PC exploits in the wild. This is sounding very Chicken Little-ish.

You've completely misrepresented the second article. The memo instructs the technicians not to confirm or deny that the Malware is installed on a particular machine, and that they shouldn't attempt to provide any further assistance. I don't know of any company on the planet that will sit there and remove viruses from your computer other than as a service from a place like Best Buy, and you will pay for it. What the memo does not say ANYWHERE is to act ignorant of the problem. That's just a complete fabrication.

Quote from the article:

Jobs and company hope to keep customers ignorant of the truth

Apple, Inc. (AAPL) long had the good fortune (from a certain perspective) of not being very popular with consumers and thus gaining security through obscurity. With millions of Macs in the wild and Apple sitting pretty in fourth place in PC sales, though, the company is seeing an increasing number of malware attacks.

I. The Customers Want the Truth? They Can't HANDLE the Truth!

In response to these attacks Apple has reportedly implemented a policy which is equal measures bizarre and baffling -- it's telling technicians to adopt a "don't ask don't tell" policy with regards to customers complaints about malware, feigning ignorance on the topic.

You may feel that the article doesn't accurately reflect the nature of the memo (I would strongly disagree with you). But please read the article again, I think I've accurately described the article in my link. I don't feel like I have fabricated anything.

[Darius Ferlas]

the only reason linux was 'secure' all of those years is because it didn't do anything useful, why write exploits for an OS that doesn't work and no one uses?

That's a rather incorrect generalization.
This site runs on Linux, CentOS. So does over 60% of the Internet worldwide using various Linux distros. Probably close to 100% google servers too. I'd say Linux is VERY useful. Even Microsoft realized that when their servers were hiding behind Linux servers around 2001/2002.

There are no 100% secure systems and most people associate computer security with a product. But security is not a product. It's a process and it's never complete.