Orientation of Dovetails on Case Sides?

[Gary Curtis]

Which direction is best for strength? Pins vertical or Tails vertical?

I'm thinking of building a tool chest. The sides will have to bear a weight load.

[Jim Matthews]

I run boards so the grain is horizontal through both the pins, and the tails.

This gives greater mechanical strength, and the best glue surface area. I prefer the through dovetail, as there is more long grain available for the glue joint.

Note the orientation of the grain in the picture - all horizontal.Fidget box front.jpgDovetail example.jpg

[Randy Klein]

I think he meant should the sides have the tails and the top have the pins or vice versa. I've seen this question posed a few times and the responses are usually split.

[Ben Beckham]

I would say tails on the sides, since they are carrying the load. Like a drawer side, I can't see a reason for doing it differently.

[Curt Putnam]

Through DTs are strong in one direction while in the other they can fall right out. In which direction will your case need strength?

[Jim Koepke]

Which direction is best for strength? Pins vertical or Tails vertical?

I'm thinking of building a tool chest. The sides will have to bear a weight load.

Will there be pressure pushing out on the sides? If so, the sides should have the pins.

If the chest will be lifted by the top or if there will be weight inside on the bottom being supported by the sides, then the top and bottom should have the pins.

jtk

[John Coloccia]

If you're building a tool chest, I'd orient them so the top and bottom don't fall off.

Once you glue stuff together, has anyone experienced anything falling apart regardless? Maybe with those delicate frou-frou skinny pins that everyone likes doing (jk! ), but more structurally oriented dovetails have a large surface area. I guess something like Titebond would eventually creep and come apart perhaps? Just curious. I know the mechanical locking is pretty strong but I haven't a clue how good the glue joint itself is.

[john brenton]

I always think about what would happen if there was no glue, and also try to imagine where the weight will be distributed. Then, if perhaps there is some other crossmember that'll either give it extra strength, or allow me to do something I wouldn't do if the crossmember weren't there.

That's a very handsome drawer, Jim M.

[Jim Matthews]

To JB -
"That's a very handsome drawer, Jim M."

I only wish that it were mine. I lifted it as an example of grain pattern last night, and can't find the builder's page.
If half my pins fit that tightly, I would be proud. I'm the king of end grain shims and "close enough".

[Ed Looney]

On the recommendations of some Creekers I purchased both Jim Kingshott and Frank Klausz DVD's on dovetails. I just watched both for the first time this last weekend. I forget which one said it but the recommendation was that the pins and tails be equal in size for maximum strength. If both are the same size it would not matter if the load was transferred from the sides to the ends. There would be as much wooden structure transferring the load as receiving it. If you have the handles on the ends of the chest and plan on pulling the handle to move the chest around the pins should be on the sides you are going to mount the handles on. Picture a kitchen drawer and note the position of the handle in relation to the dovetail on the corner. The relationship from the handle on your chest to joint should be the same. The pins on the face of the drawer are pulling on the tails cut into the sides.

Ed

[Derek Cohen]

If the carcase is hanging from the wall, then the dovetails are to prevent the sides dropping down.

If the carcase is supported on a stand or the floor, then the dovetails are to prevent the sides being pushed outward.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[jamie shard]

If the carcase is hanging from the wall, then the dovetails are to prevent the sides dropping down.

... and if you use morise and tenon or sliding dovetail for at least one of the shelves/strechers, it helps lock in the sides from being pushed outwards.

[Andrae Covington]

Which direction is best for strength? Pins vertical or Tails vertical?

I'm thinking of building a tool chest. The sides will have to bear a weight load.

I'm a little confused about what you mean by vertical. After reading Derek's post I am thinking you are envisioning something hanging on the wall that will have the top and bottom dovetailed into the sides, rather than a tool chest that sits on the floor (or wheels) and has the four sides dovetailed together.

For the hanging case, I think you would want the pins on the top and bottom boards. This would allow the tailed sides to hang and not drop out, even if you didn't glue the joints together.

For a more traditional tool chest or blanket chest or whatever, then as Ed Looney said usually the pins are on the sides where the handles are, to resist the force of pulling on the handles. Aesthetically too I think most people prefer the look of the tails from side profile so it's nice to have those on the front of the chest.

As it happens, I have started building a traditional tool chest and just glued the four side panels together yesterday. Talk about needing an assistant... putting glue on 50+ dovetails and then getting it all assembled before the glue starts to set up. The dovetail joints aren't very pretty but I took the clamps off this evening and it sure seems rock solid.

[Pam Niedermayer]

...The dovetail joints aren't very pretty but I took the clamps off this evening and it sure seems rock solid.

This is what molding and half hidden or mitered dovetails are for.

Pam

[Ed Looney]

Andrae
I haven't tried it but there is a slower setting glue that is used in bag style vacuum presses. I have often wondered if it would help to use it on large glue up jobs like you were faced with. Perhaps someone who has experience with this type of glue will chime in and answer if it will help to use it on large jobs.

Ed