Member
I sure wouldn't want to be without my TS, but it can and does work for lots of people. I suspect you can get the dimensions close with a BS, but I've never witnessed a BS (MM16 or other) cut smooth enough for a glue ready edge straight off the BS, which is something a TS does pretty easily with a moderately good blade. The cut edges from a BS would almost certainly need to be smoothed prior to gluing .Originally Posted by John Coloccia
Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....
Member
This type of thinking could result in a high unemployment rate in China, just like ours. We can't have that, can we?
Tom
2 Chronicles 7:14
Member
The type of work we do usually determines the tools we use. The tools we use are sometimes determined by the space we have available. A tablesaw is usually the most important tool in most shops. I would suggest you hang onto the table saw for a few more months and just don't use it. If you don't need it or miss it, then go ahead and sell it.
Member
John - A different take from a fellow neander:
You don't really need the TS since you know how to cut joinery by hand (or router), and you have the handplanes, knowledge (and I assume) the workbench necessary to get a perfect edge on a board - far better than you can ever get on a TS. Personally, I always thought the "glue line rip" marketing phrase was ridiculous - I would never glue up boards off of a TS, no matter how well tuned.
For sheet goods, you can take the approach that I usually take. Since my TS has an outfeed restricted to 7 feet, I rip sheet goods with a circular saw, a sheet-goods blade, and an 9' long guide for along-the-length, and a 54" guide for across-the-width.
However, I would recommend not getting rid of your planer. Like you, I use hand planes to finish boards, and also rough-square boards that are too big to fit through the planer or go across the joiner. However, the planer takes up very little room, and I'd go nuts if I had to finish-surface every single board that I resaw, as it's a lot of work.
But you could easily do without the jointer, and mostly my DJ-20 sits gathering dust.
Finally, before you do this, consider your current workbench. If you're going to build another one, you might want to hang on to your stationary tools for a little while longer. It's a lot of work to hand-surface everything for a bench (which I'm currently doing - a 24" wide slab won't fit on my machines).
Finally, (and I think you've already come to this conclusion), almost any BS can easily substitute for a TS for ripping anything, so long as you know how to use a handplane to joint the edge.
Member
But... But... But... I LIKE having a shop full of tools!
ps: I just scored a (2nd hand) G0513X the other month, which is not even hooked up yet, so I am rather looking forward to what it can do for me in the shop!
"It's Not About You."
Member
David - I've never found it necessary to buy a special "Glue Line Rip" blade, but I've never had trouble with a glue joint made right off the saw that had a decent blade on it. The TS can leave a better gluing edge than the jointer, which can leave a scalloped edge if you're not careful. A hand plane can leave a better edge than either, but you don't need a shiny edge to glue it up, just has to be a little smooth....most good 30T, 40T, 50T, and 60T blades do well, and some 24T blades are sufficient.
Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....
[OP]
Contributor
You candle your joints off the table saw and see NO light?
Member
Absolutely, but I flatten and straighten the stock on a jointer first, then rip it to final width.
Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....
Member
John,
I don't glue off the saw. But, I use a Freud glue line rip because I can rip pieces and they are ready to install. I just ripped 8/4 maple legs with a Freud glue line rip. It was an easy and quick one-step operation and they are ready to install right off the saw. We both have the same saw so I know yours has this kind of precision and power. I think you would regret giving up your table saw. For the rest of your life, do really want to be jointing every edge then ripping on a band saw and then have to either joint or drum sand the sawn edge on every leg, rail and stile you produce? Also think about all the other processes, such as dadoing, precise crosscuting etc. that your saw can perform with more ease and precision than any other machine. Its also not hard to imagine that some day you may want or need to mill up sheet goods quickly and precisely. You will really be kicking yourself then. I know the Jet combo thing is a drag, and has you thinking out of the box, but why shoot yourself in the foot and end up with less capability and convenience. I don't know what your finances are looking like, but maybe you could dump the jet and get something decent. I believe Hammer is currently having a sale on jointer/planer combos. Best Wishes
[OP]
Contributor
It's less for getting rid of the combo than it is for clearing out room. The TS and JP take up enormous amounts of room, especially when you consider the clearances required to actually use them.
Member
Most useful router jigs that allow you to cut joinery start with stock prepared on the TS!
I've rip glued off the table saw for many years using rip glue blades. While there may be an element of adspeak to the phrase I can say that 9 times out of 10 I get beautiful glue ups right off the TS. The 1 time out of 10 where I don't get a great joint comes down to the frisky nature of the wood being prepared and it would give me fits if I was using a handplane or power jointer as well.
I use the table saw and a very simple jig to cut my neck scarf joints. A couple swipes with a handplane and I'm gluing the joint up. Just advocating for the TS I guess!
Member
They do take up room John sure enough. In an ideal world (Hey! Pedroia just hit a two run homer) Oh where was I? In an ideal world you have 10' all round the blade. That is a Lot of space! I barely have 8' on my ts outfeed and I have to do my cross cuts on the right side since I don't have the left hand clearance. Big Papi just hit a three run homer - got to go watch the end of the Sox game! By the way John, I see your in Conn. I'm in Boston. Are a baseball fan? and if so are you the side of the Angels or the recently-swept Evil Empire in the Big Apple?
Last edited by michael case; 06-12-2011 at 2:26 PM.
Member
John;
I have the MM16 BS. I have had it for a little over one year. I have been using it a lot, and my TS is sitting quietly now. I do have an 8 inch jonter, and a 13 inch planer, both get a lot of use. For the few times I need to cut sheet goods, I reach for my track saw. During the last year I used about 400 board feet of oak to makes some pieces of furniture. The carbide blade on the band saw shows no signs of slowing down. It cuts that oak like butter. During that same time the knives on my jointer and planer needed to be sharpened, but the band saw carbide blade is going strong. I have a Tri-master carbide blade on the MM16. The cut quality is superb.
I don't think there is a table saw anywhere in the world that can cut as fast as a good bandsaw. And the kerf is narrower than the table saw, so less dust and less waste. I have a little work cell setup in my basement shop. A compund sliding miter saw to cut to rough length, then the jointer, next the band saw, then the planer to get final thickness. Very little walking required to move between the machines, and it makes the dust collection easy.
Like you I use my router for dados. I did recently use my table saw to cut the dados for drawer bottoms, since I had twelve drawers. But I am finding all kinds of ways to avoid using the table saw.
If you see the shops of the boat builders up in Maine, they have their band saw at the center of the action instead of a table saw like a cabinet shop would have. This makes sense because of the kind of parts they are making. Since you are making instruements, I think your band saw idea is great. And if you enjoy using your hand planes, it all adds up.
The MM16 that I bought was lightly used. I paid $1800 for it and it had the Tri-master carbide blade on it. I have no way of knowing how much it was used, but the machine looked like new, and so did the other tools in the shop of the guy I bought it from. I made the trip from CT down to Hershey, PA and brought it home in U-haul box trailer, with the saw on its spine. The saw travelled really well this way. I would do it all over again in a heartbeat. It is the finest tool in my workshop.
[OP]
Contributor
If forced to choose, I would say I'm a Yankees fan. Having grown up in New York, it's more accurate to say I really disliked the Red Sox for a long time. These days, I don't really watch baseball anymore. They lost me at the strike and never really got me back.
[OP]
Contributor
Now we're talking. I think I will almost certainly bring in a smaller jointer and a smaller helical head planer. That, the MM16, my 514X2, 22-44 drum sander and chop saw should really do it for me.
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