im curious if anyone has ever had an idea/invention or improvement to a product and they submitted it to Rockler?
if so,
- did you have any problems?
- how long did it take to come to market?
- how long before you started seeing an income?
- has any other company copied your idea?
- is there anything you would do different?
Member
Man.
I don't know *anything* about this stuff, but something in the back of MY head says ... don't submit an idea for which you don't have a patent, if obtaining a patent is possible.
There are LOTS of stories out there, where ideas get submitted, nicely-worded letters -- of no interest -- are generated, in response, and then ... a year later ... that idea is being sold, commercially.
I'd talk with a patent attorney before I told *anybody* -- including us-- what your idea was about.
Best of luck !
In Memoriam
Yes, this.
1. Yes
2. fast, man, days.
3. Right away
4. Yes
5. A lot
Member
I haven't traveled down this road but I have had many ideas I would like to see marketed whether I see a penny from them or not.
For example I would love to see inverse router bits for common base board profiles and a sliding fixture to mount to the bottom of a router to hold the base board at 90 degrees. Then the inverse router bit would cut the perfect inverse profile on the end of the base board to butt up against another baseboard in an inside corner. 45's always leave a messy looking gap.
Member
Isn't that why one would cope those joints? Of course, coping is hard (for me anyway), i could tun a router bit all day long...
Originally Posted by Mike Schuch
Member
Exactly!!!! It takes for ever for me to cope these joints then touch them up with a file.
Clamp the end of the base board in the router, Power the router up, slide the router, release.... perfect joint every time in a second or two!!!!!
Contributor
When I cut inside 90's on baseboard, I cut two 45's, who would cope this? why?
Member
Coping is, at least as far as I know, the traditional method of joining inside corners (crown and base). People still probably do it if only for ease of installation, as it allows you to cope only one end, and leave the other end straight to the wall, thereby allowing you to slide out the trim out in order to make the cope end tight fitting. This way you don't have to be exact on either end, as you would on a 45 degree miter.
That said, coping also serves to prevent a gap space from developing over time (with shrinkage, etc), because there is always part of the molding (the uncoped part) filling the joist. In other words, it won't appear open over time.
Joe
cmon guys, lets stay on track please!
if you want to talk about coping please start your own thread.
Member
I have been down the patent path and lost the idea to bigger pockets with no morals, but then that is business so I am told. First thing to do is forget the whole idea unless you can realistically defend your patent in a court of law because in the end if someone copies what you have done in part or whole you have to either walk away and forget it or defend the patent in court. Patents are for the big companies with plenty of money to defend them against other big companies who want to rip them off, Nokia and Apple of recent times are a prime example. If you are determined to go ahead then do not tell even one person about the idea as that contravenes the patent rules. Keep in mind if you do patent something and someone takes an objection to it because they think they got there first you have either walk away or fight the claim. I had a patent ripped off by a person who was supposed to help me in the marketing and the idea is now sold world wide as he had deeper pockets.
Chris
Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening
Contributor
I had a simular arrangement with a company call Eastwood on an air tool rack we manufactured. As soon as China got ahold of it it was all over the place.
Until intellectual property is protected I would not bother again. I didn't recover all my manufacturing costs before the clones hit. One of the reasons I refuse to buy Chinese.
Member
I'd echo some of the views on how hard it generally is to get any traction, and to avoid getting ripped off on inventions - even if yours is commercially worthwhile. This is especially the case while inventions are at an early stage of development.
Once you put it in the public domain you can't patent afterwards.
Show it confidentially to a potential investor before it's patented and if it's of interest you're likely to get copied at which stage you are relying on going to law to enforce the terms of whatever disclosure agreement you had with them - if it covered the situation, and you can afford to. It can as happen as simply as the guy you showed the item to turning around and claiming the invention as his own inside the organisation.
In reality though unless it's very obviously useful and the company has a pressing need for it you probably won't get past the 'not invented here' syndrome.
Ideas are not really capable of protection, you need to invest enough to get something to the stage where the design is well enough defined to be patentable which ups the ante. Engineering designs are notoriously hard to protect anyway, there's usually ways of using the same concept in a different realisation.
It's the usual catch 22 problem. If you've got loads of money then you probably can protect something, but since you can afford to develop it yourself you strictly speaking don't need to until you are ready to invest in developing and selling it. Which improves the chances of a relatively strong patent, because by now the development is well defined and its ins and outs well known. Some things once developed far enough are capable of decent protection because the patented design isn't easily circumvented (chemical processes for example - there's usually only one way to get them to work), but many are not - so it becomes a case by case decision sort of issue.
As above even if you do get a patent you've then got to have the time and money to go to law to enforce any claim you think you might have.
Even patents are dodgy these days. Sloppy investigation and process in patent offices is increasingly leading to a situation where patents get granted that aren't really justified because the invention is not in reality truly novel - a situation that can be to your advantage or disadvantage depending on how the cards fall.
Like in most man made systems and affairs it seems like contracts, law, patents and the like are pie in the sky/fond hopes that despite the promise most of the time let you down while making those maintaining and selling the mirage that there's a credible system (e.g. the legal profession) rich - that there really isn't any substitute for trustworthiness, or any reliable way to get around its absence in those you get involved with.
Unless (to a point) that is you are wealthy enough to be able to afford to carry a big enough stick to force compliance, or by various means make it tough for a competitor to follow you, whether via the law or otherwise....
Last edited by ian maybury; 06-18-2011 at 7:48 AM.
Member
Market the product yourself and get it out everywhere you can. Not easy to do, but getting a huge market presence gives the product momentum. Patent is only as good as your first lawsuit. China will copy any darn thing they want because they can. They also somewhat need to because even though they have endless supplies of cheap workers, most of the highly educated people lack the ability to create or inovate.
Member
I developed a product I thought marketable. I filed a Provisional Patent Application (online, $100, but is only good for a year) and started contacting the usual suspects. A full Utility Patent can cost tens of thousands of dollars and 2 to 3 years to obtain. If the idea is not patentable, you don't get any of that money back either!!! Before I would provide details, I also exchanged non-disclosure agreements. One of the interested parties (there were a few) who I highly respect and is respected here, did not want to sign the agreement and in fact, wanted ME to sign a statement acknowledging that fact. I didn't choose them but and talking with them again about two other products. Some companies get literally tens of thousands of proposals a year and may not want to even open or look at most of them. They want to avoid any change of and infringement claim, etc. since they may be developing something similar at the same time. Anyway, I was lucky and found a company that was a perfect fit, and negotiated a license agreement with them. It has taken and an incredible amount of time and effort to turn my design into something manufacturable. Coincidentally, I will be making an announcement about it here on Thursday.
Something to remember- depends on the source, but some of the books I read say anywhere from 95% to 99% of new inventions never make it to market for one reason or another. The main reason is that it can not be economically produced and sold at a reasonable price. Also, with woodworking stuff, which has a limited market, you may not make much. Typically, license fees for woodworking products are 1% - 5% of the wholesale cost (not retail price). So, if you license an item that a retailer sells for $50 and your agreement is for 3% of the wholesale price you will only see 3% of $25 or 75 cents for each item. Not bad if it is an IPhone where millions are sold, but if only a thousand are sold a year you only see $750.
Also, you need to look at whether your potential target company has the means to manufacture your item, or do they typically buy items from other sources or contract it out to some company in China.
[OP]
Member
i dont know, Rockler has a good FAQ page about this http://www.rockler.com/faq/new_ideas.cfm
and if they were screwing anyone over im sure we would be hearing about it on one of these
woodworking forums?
i can see if i had a super widget and thought it was the next best thing since apple pie then i would
probably do it on my own by getting a lawyer, a patent, etc... but that way costs a LOT of money.
and since i just have a little do-hickey that others might find is handy then Rockler is more the way to
go and let them handle the expense?
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