(1) We started with divining rods, with many here insisting they work.
(2) We moved on to psychics. I, for one, feel psychics are awesome.
(3) Therefor, it would seem that Ouija Boards are an actual connection to the spirit world.
Guest
(1) We started with divining rods, with many here insisting they work.
(2) We moved on to psychics. I, for one, feel psychics are awesome.
(3) Therefor, it would seem that Ouija Boards are an actual connection to the spirit world.
Last edited by Phil Thien; 06-25-2011 at 9:17 AM.
Contributor
Randi does not set up the test. The general protocol is that the applicant gets to design the test and the James Randi Foundation just makes sure that the demonstration is rigorous enough that scientific results can be obtained. Basically, the applicant gets to say "This is what I can do" and agrees to a demonstration where s/he can either pass or fail after multiple trials. So far, no one has been able to do what they say they can do. They can't even pass their own test.Originally Posted by Jerome Stanek
What is happening during dowsing is that people remember when they "succeed", and forget when they "fail". Once you record and document all the predictions - whatever they may be, it always comes out to basically the same as guessing. That is why scientists say dowsing doesn't work. It has been tested many times, and when all the data are examined, the results always come up lacking. This is not closed mindedness - it is how you sort fact from fiction. One "correct" result (or even two or three) is not nearly enough to say dowsing works. You have to repeatably be able to find what you are looking for when it is there, and not say you found something when it's not really there. Anyone who can accomplish that - with dowsing or any other supernatural means - will get a cool $1,000,000 from James Randi.
I've measured three times, cut twice, and it's STILL too short...
Member
Careful of what you criticize just because scientist @prove@ it is not possible. I do not have a view either way as during my ancient lifeI have seen and encountered many strange things. working as a Volunteer Community Advocate fighting on behalf of those most vulnerable within the community I see research biased or corrupted because the parameters have been set to narrow leading to a bias towards the views of thse with a vested interest. later it was found that those concerns were right. Where I live we had a community set up under court orders for companies to work together with the public and address conserns and issues. It was wide open to anyone in the public to come and have their concerns addressed. when the committee refused to support the company attain an accredited licence until it complied with its present licence conditions. the result was the company refused to continue to work alongside the committee and set up its own special committee and refused to provide the community with information, (narrow parameters). My comments may appear irrelevant to this forum but I use it to demonstrate how research, (technical, health etc.) can be biased in favour of vested interests. My advice listen, think carefully, and research the subject to enable an informed decision. Now my question regarding the scientific study would be what were the parameters and methodolgy set to undertake the study and did it include a holistic study or just some "ideas". I love reading and seeing different views expressed. I am retired (so they tell me) but work long hours on behalf of the community, but do manage to include my hobby of woodworking, although I do not claim to be an expert and I am very interested from learning from others. One of my areas of special interest is disabled childre, specifically those with autistic spectrum conditions. Regards.
Guest
I recently saw this documentary where it showed how our world is controlled by a group of men wearing hats. Their job is to make sure the master plan is followed. So if you aren't supposed to meet a certain girl on a bus, for example, they might cause you to spill coffee on yourself on your way to the bus, which would cause you to return to your home to change clothes, which would cause you to miss your bus.
In the documentary they said a lot of things that happen to us every day (Internet connection goes out, etc.) are caused by these men (they were referred to in the documentary as working for the Adjustment Bureau).
Well, I feel much better after seeing it and I now understand a lot of things I didn't before.
Contributor
That's exactly the same as gamblers. They remember the times they won and forget the times the lost. But if you add up the money, most (almost all) of them are net losers. The house is the only consistent winner because the odds work that way (the house is favored).
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Contributor
I have been trying to reply to this but my PC keeps locking up..............
The Plane Anarchist
Member
Sorry..
ok, you can try it now.
Member
Unlike research conducted in the spirit of commerce, legitimate scientific research is subjected to peer review. Scientists with opposing or conflicting opinions on a matter ultimately expand our knowledge base.
In the twentieth century, scientists were rock stars. We won a war based on science (A bomb), put men on the moon, greatly advanced the standard of living and so on. Now we're slipping back to calling scientists heretics because the method they used to deliver all the advances our civilization has enjoyed to date either won't confirm a belief or dare to suggest something that runs contrary to a system of beliefs.
Here's a test for the dowser folks. If you needed a well on your property, would you trust a dowser that told you there was no water on your property?
Or even better yet, if you had to choose between a nerd sporting a pocket protector or an old timer dowser, which one would you choose?
Measure twice, cut three times, start over. Repeat as necessary.
Member
Contributor
There are many things we do not fully understand.
Does that mean they should be dismissed?
I do not think of myself as a dowser, but I have used bent rods and have them work for me.
Other things are also interesting about personal anomalies. My body seems to build up a static charge more than other people I have known. I have found ways to compensate for this so I do not get zapped every time I touch metal.
I gave up wearing mechanical watches years ago. Everyone of them would come to a stop and not start again when worn by me. Sometimes within a period of a few days. One watch lasted a few months.
Just as some folks are better at some skills, there are also physical and chemical principles at work in our composition. Some folks are sensitive to weather changes while others may be sensitive to other stimuli.
If something can not be fully explained, it does not mean it is without merit.
For all we know there is a concentration of magnetic forces in those who find things with dowsing rods.
I doubt anyone who can dowse can explain why or how it works. It would not surprise me to hear them try. Most likely the more beer (or other spirit), the more verbose the explanation.
Maybe a study should be done to find a reason why dowsing works for some and not others.
There is much in the world that is not explained.
Why are some people lactose intolerant? Why can I eat peanuts by the handful and some people eat one peanut and it almost causes their death?
Medicines also work different for different people, just because there are a limited number of "side effects" experienced by some, there are positive actions for many others.
I can not explain my religion. That does not mean I will abandon my beliefs.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
There seem to be several responses along the lines of "just because you can't explain it doesn't mean you should dismiss it" and several more taking scientifically-minded folk to task with admonitions that "not everything can be explained" or similar statements, and there have been a couple of ad hominem attacks on scientists as well.
The main objection (at least as I read it) to the practice of divination has been the lack of repeatability, not any possible explanation that has been put forward. Indeed, if we were to try to determine an underlying explanation, we would first need reliable practitioners that can constantly and repeatably provide results. Without them, any plausible explanation would be muddied by random chance. We would not be able to distinguish whether it was the potential theory or if it was just luck.
Cheers,
Chris
If you only took one trip to the hardware store, you didn't do it right.
Contributor
It HAS BEEN, MANY TIMES - the result is that it DOESN'T work for ANYONE.
These are easily explained. A few seconds with Google will give you a full treatment of food allergy. Just because *you* don't understand it, doesn't mean that the human race as a whole doesn't understand it.
Contributor
...and the computer you are sitting in front of, and the defibrillator that may save you life, and the airbags in your car, and the other space shuttles...
The fact that we are not abandoning modern technology in favor of antiquity suggest that those "nerds with pocket protectors" are right significantly more often than they are wrong...
Guest
New theory: Perhaps the universe won't allow us to test things like divining rods. Just maybe they will always have to remain a matter of faith.
That, even if someone has a 99% track record using them, any attempt at testing this will result in 50-50 results.
Member
I don't know why I can find electric and water lines but I can with two metal rods. I never tried finding water so I don't know if I can. My sister had a well driller come out and my mother told him to drill at one spot but he said he would drill about 10 feet over because in his expert opinion there was water there and it would be easier for him. He drilled 190 feet and didn't hit any water so he drilled where my mother said and hit water at 90 feet.
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