Help choosing my next tool.

[Andrew Gibson]

I I am actually looking at picking up some form of scraper plane. I just tuned up and got my #80 cabinet scraper working and I am really loving it, though I would like something dedicated to doing a bit finer work and leaving a bit finer surface. I have been using the #80 to clean up oak panels after gluing and to get them smoothed up. It leaves a smooth but somewhat hairy surface that I then hit with a bit of sandpaper...

My first thought is a LN Cabinet Makers scraper, then I thought the Large scraper plane would be the ticket... now I'm not sure, but I think I like the first choice... anyone have either of these? also thought about the LV offering but I think I like the LN looks better.

Second tool is a pair of Mortise chisels. I have been watching TFWW for the Ray Iles chisels but in the last few months the 1/4" and 3/8" have not been in stock at the same time. I am thinking about getting the LN offerings, but I have a feeling the RI may be that much better, I think the LN have parallel sides which just seems like it would not work as well. I may be wrong on this point... I thought about the Narex, but I think I want to get the good stuff and not wish I had and then end up buying twice.

So I want a Scraper Plane and a pair of mortise chisles... but which ones?

[Sam Takeuchi]

If the scraper blade is well sharpened or dressed (with or without burr) and still leave fuzzy surface, wrong tool for the material in question. It's not going to change by using LN or LV scraper plane. I can tell you one thing about scraper plane, it is a very specialized tool and unless you will be working with a lot of tough, gnarly, tear out prone woods, you won't be using it all that much. Something like oak, you don't even need a scraper. It's hard, but it's relatively well behaving wood. Scraper plane is pretty much the last bladed tool that gets used after even the high angle planes fail. Personally I think if you are sanding after the scraper, you can skip the scraper altogether. There isn't a whole lot of point in using scraper then, but that's just me.

As for me, I use LV scraper plane and it works marvelously on rosewood, ebony and so on. But for oak? If I didn't have a scraper plane, I wouldn't buy one to use it on oak.

As for mortise chisels, I don't use them so probably others can chime in. Though, I'm very doubtful of RI mortise chisels being "that much better", but I wouldn't hesitate to vouch for the quality of RI products. Same goes for LN products, too, so I think differences may be subtle.

[Joe McMahon]

Why not buy a LN 1/4" mortising chisel now and give it a try? If it doesn't fill the bill, you can easily get 80% of the cost back here on the S&S. If it works, then you can get the other one(s) that you want and be using them instead of waiting for RI to get some. I have the LN and am pleased with their performance and edge holding ability.

[Andrew Gibson]

Thanks sam. Im not sure what has been up with the oak I am using. It is very dry, but for some reason is not plaining well for me and keeps tearing out. I thought I needed to sharpen so I did with no change in result. I switched to a scrap of cherry and was taking beautiful shavings so it was the wood... I sharpened the #80 with a light bur and it did wonderfully at rolling off shavings but the surface still needed the fuzz removed... The oak was cut maybe 8 years ago and kiln dried and has been stacked and sitting... that being said I am considering a scraper plane for other work and basically the 80 got me "hooked" on the idea of adding one to the collection. I have been doing a bit of inlay work and have a project in the works that will include a fair amount of inlay work, and I am thinking that a scraper plane would be perfect for final flattening and smoothing of the inlay rather then a plane, and it would leave a flatter surface then a card scraper...

Joe, that may be the route I take in regards to the chisels

[David Weaver]

I have a couple of the LN mortise chisels, some japanese mortise chisels and some RI chisels.

I would wait for the RI chisels to come back in stock. It's not that the straight sided LN chisels are really that much trouble to use in a mortise (they're not), they're just not quite as nice to use for mortising in general because they're small. They are very tough, though, but I bought the LN chisels first and other than to chop one mortise after using the RIs to compare how they felt, I haven't again used the LNs.

Old laminated oval bolstered mortise chisels would probably be just about as good as the RIs, even if the steel in the RIs is a bit tougher. It can be a challenge to find them in the size you want, when you want, and for less than the RIs, though - at least without taking on one that needs a lot of work or that has been bellied a good bit by whoever had it last.

I would not buy any scraping plane that doesn't allow you to change the angle of the scraper blade, other than a stanley #80 type (that you already have). I like LN's small bronze scraping plane the best out of all of the scraping planes i've tried, but I don't scrape a lot. that plane gets used a lot more on the bottom of japanese planes than it does on anything else, but I did use it on some maple panels that had moved a bit since glue-up, and it proved to be very good - better than a large footed scraping plane that demanded a much flatter surface.

[Tony Shea]

I also would love to have a scraper plane of late and have been throwing the idea around a bit. May not get the call all that often but when it does it sure would be a life saver. I like the idea of having a nice flat sole compared to the card scraper valleys.

As for the mortising chisels, I can't speak for the RI but own LN 1/4" and 3/8". And the reason I chose these is due to the parallel sides. I also own a couple Hircsh big boy mortising chisels without parallel sides, my first mortising chisels. These are tapered. In my experience I really really like the parallel sides and think its a huge help in keeping my mortises nice and true. The taper lends itself to being able to twist a bit as you drive them deep. This is odviously something that can be overcome but the LN's really help with that. THey also cut away the side walls of the mortise with both the front and back edges of the chisel creating a nice smooth wall through out the mortise. I honestly think my LN mortising chisels have made huge improvements in my mortising ability and wouldn't trade them for RI if you paid me. But that is my experience. They were originally purchased due to advise from someone that also was a fan of the parallel sides.

[James Owen]

I use both the #80 Stanley and the LN scraper planes. I like all of them, and they all do a good job, depending on what is required..... Not sure that any single one of them will work in all situations.....

I'll throw in my vote for the Ray Iles English Oval Bolster Mortise Chisels. I own a complete set of them, absolutely LOVE them, and can recommend them with zero reservations. I also own a number of LN chisels (not their mortise chisels, however) and love them as well, but for cutting mortises, I have never used anything that even comes close to the Iles mortise chisels. The handles just slip into your hand and feel "right" as well as making it easy to hold them exactly where they need to be, the D-2 steel holds an edge FOREVER, the trapezoidal shape makes it easy to lever chips out of the mortise, and, in general, they simply perform as well as anyone could ask them to. They make cutting mortises as fool-proof as it gets. IMO, they are, quite simply, the best modern mortise chisels made!

My recommendation (FWIW) is to go ahead and order them; if they are out of stock when you order them, when they are re-stocked, they will be promptly shipped to you. I have done this several times with various tools (some of which were out of stock at the time of ordering) from TFWW, and as soon as the tools were back in stock, they were on their way to me. Joel is a great guy, who REALLY takes care of his customers!!!!! (No affiliation with TFWW, just a supremely satisfied repeat customer.)

(No personal experience with them, but the Narex mortise chisels have gotten good reviews from a number of folks on this forum.)

[David Keller NC]

Andrew - Don't depend on the TFWW note about whether something is/isn't in stock. While accurate, it's not a good indicator of when you will get your tool. Joel fills orders as he gets shipments, and it took me a little over a week to get a full set of RI mortise chisels, despite the fact that several of them stayed in the "out of stock" condition continuously during that time.

I would also vote for the RI chisels. There's a reason for an old tool's configuration, and it was generally worked out long before the late 19th/20th century. Oval shaped handles on a mortise chisel is a good example.

[Trevor Walsh]

I've been really happy with the RI mortise chisel I got. 1/4" I found a bunch of vintage ones for a good price so that rounds out my set.

[James Scheffler]

Thanks sam. Im not sure what has been up with the oak I am using. It is very dry, but for some reason is not plaining well for me and keeps tearing out. I thought I needed to sharpen so I did with no change in result. I switched to a scrap of cherry and was taking beautiful shavings so it was the wood... I sharpened the #80 with a light bur and it did wonderfully at rolling off shavings but the surface still needed the fuzz removed... The oak was cut maybe 8 years ago and kiln dried and has been stacked and sitting... that being said I am considering a scraper plane for other work and basically the 80 got me "hooked" on the idea of adding one to the collection. I have been doing a bit of inlay work and have a project in the works that will include a fair amount of inlay work, and I am thinking that a scraper plane would be perfect for final flattening and smoothing of the inlay rather then a plane, and it would leave a flatter surface then a card scraper...

I've had the exact same problem with working with oak, specifically quartersawn white oak (I had significant tearout issues on the flatsawn edges as well). I have a friend who has been making a couple projects with flatsawn red oak, and he is having a lot of trouble with tearout. So, I would say that your issue is the wood and not the tools.

I got a Stanley No. 80 in desperation to finish my project without resorting to power sanding. It worked really well. Maybe there is a benefit to having a variable blade angle, but my No. 80 worked so well that I don't see a reason to upgrade to a scraper plane. I didn't have an issue with the surface coming out fuzzy, but I would have been ok with a little hand sanding if that's what was necessary.

Jim S.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Below is the type of scraping plane I use, small and large sizes. Granted, they're intended for contouring dai soles; but the instructions didn't say "do not use this for other things." Also, since the dai are usually made of white Japanese oak, they're great for our wimpy species. Of course I have the usual complement of cabinet scrapers and a #80 hanging about, but the Japanese version is my favorite.

Pam

[Don Inghram]

Another option would be a vintage Stanley #12 1/2. JMO.

[Tony Shea]

Below is the type of scraping plane I use, small and large sizes. Granted, they're intended for contouring dai soles; but the instructions didn't say "do not use this for other things."

Some descriptions do say that these planes are intended for the sole conditioning purpose. But there is whole different array of sizes out there than what is available from just the retailers that sell to us. And making your own size is a very common practise as well. So I do not agree in that the Japanese scraper plane's intended purpose is just sole conditioning as is often conveyed to us Americans. The narrow versions that are mostly available to us are certainly very useful for this purpose but are not limited to this.

[Tri Hoang]

You can probably get by without a scraper plane by using a small 25-30* back bevel on one of your smoothers. So get the mortise chisels.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Some descriptions do say that these planes are intended for the sole conditioning purpose. But there is whole different array of sizes out there than what is available from just the retailers that sell to us. And making your own size is a very common practise as well. So I do not agree in that the Japanese scraper plane's intended purpose is just sole conditioning as is often conveyed to us Americans. The narrow versions that are mostly available to us are certainly very useful for this purpose but are not limited to this.

Yeah, the "instructions" line was a joke, I received no instructions; but then I generally don't buy Japanese planes retail, never have, maybe one or three over 11 years.

Pam