Stanley/Record Cap Irons made by Veritas® question

[matt braun]

I bought a 2" Stanley/Record Cap Iron from Veritas. I tried to put it in a pre-WWII Stanley/Bailey #4 and #5 but it is too thick. It appears that I will need to open up the mouth by filing.

Question:
Is it normal to have to file open the plane mouth with these blades or am I missing something?

Note that I did move the frog all the way back (in line with the back side of the mouth).

I've read it's common to file open the mouth with thicker blades, but I bought this blade because I didn't think I would have to do any metalwork (and because of the price). According to Chris Schwarz blog, "The blades are thin. They are thicker than stock Stanley blades, but not so thick that you have to file open the mouth of your tool or do other metalwork on the guts of your planes. Veritas found a nice middle ground."

[Rob Lee]

Hi Matt,

There is a certain amount of variability across the Stanley line, going back 100 years or so. Not only were planes made in different foundries, they were made in different countries. Then too, there were many sets of patterns, and the machining was certainly not CNC.

All to say that there is no certainty when looking at aftermarket blades. Ours should fit the majority of planes without having to fettle the mouth...

Any fettling you would have to do to make a .100" blade fit, would be more akin to bringing the plane within spec, than compromising the original design spec...

Of course, if you don't want to file the mouth, there's no problem sending the blade back....

Cheers,

Rob

[matt braun]

...
Of course, if you don't want to file the mouth, there's no problem sending the blade back....
...
Cheers,
Rob

Rob,
While I'd prefer not to file the mouth, I don't have a problem with it. I'm happy with the blade and don't plan on sending it back. I simply wanted to get some input from others to make sure I wasn't filing unnecessarily. As always, I'm impressed by your customer service and personal response (and free shipping).
Matt B

[David Weaver]

File the mouth and do it fairly carefully. Red/blue dykem or magic marker the area in front of the mouth and then strike a line with a square and a scribe from both sides to get a square edge just in front of the current mouth.

File to that mark. It only probably has to be a part of a millimeter, so don't take too much off.

You will have a better performing plane with the filed mouth than you would with the old cast/worn mouth. File into the plane body and deburr the bottom of the mouth when you're done with fine sandpaper on a flat hardwood block.

You might want to file the top of the mouth inside the casting a little so there is room for the chipbreaker to work and still let chips through. If you don't have to, you don't have to, but if you need more clearance there, the plane will clog - you'll know when it happens. I learned this lesson the hard way on an infill kit - one that I don't generally use the second iron to break chips, but where I have to leave it back some now for clearance - it is a nuisance issue if I am not paying attention and assemble the iron with the chipbreaker at the edge.

[Bob Lang]

Try scooting the frog back a little bit. Because of the bevel being down there is a bit of leeway in that adjustment, the front edge of the frog can be slightly behind the mouth opening.

Bob Lang

[Bill Moser]

David and Bob both offer good tips. I had to do the same thing when I bought a Clifton iron to replace the original on a #7. It was a scary thing for me to do, but it worked out great.

[Salem Ganzhorn]

Matt,
A couple q's: when you look at the frog from the side is the blade mated flush against the frog? It should be. Also you may want to slide the frog forward not back. This is counter intuitive but depending on the bevel on the iron you may actually be pushing the blade forward because it is contacting the back of the mouth. On most of my planes if I back the frog all the way back it actually moves the iron forward! It is easy to check the whole frog adjustment range by backing the iron back into the body a little and adjusting the frog without any tension on the screw.

File as a last resort. Not because it is scary to file or because you will ruin the plane. If you are new to fettling hand planes you just may have a simple assembly problem. Even if you are not so new it happens.

Salem

[Trevor Walsh]

Two thoughts on this... Firstly I just got a Veritas blade set for my Stanley #4 and love it, works perfectly all I have to do is round the corners on the iron to get rid of those plane tracks. Secondly, I have a really thick (over 1/8, maybe pushing 3/16) Eclipse iron with good steel that I just started using as a straight iron on my MF #14 jack... it originally came with a Stanley blade set which is now ground at an 8" radius. Even with the frog set all the way back, I can barely clear the mouth. I'm filing it to fit. Then I'll have a huge mouth for the curved iron to chew through and a tightish one for the straight blade.

[Eddie Darby]

Try this thread.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org

Also:

"Replacement blades for Bench Planes must be thinner to fit the original Stanley, Record or other makers' Bench Planes. If the blade is too thick, the yoke on your plane will not properly engage the slot in the Chipbreaker, The Chipbreaker Screw may not be long enough to install the Chipbreaker at all, but most important the mouth opening may not be large enough to allow the blade, or a shaving, to pass." - from Lie-Nielsen.com



http://www.robcosman.com/tools_blade_chipbreaker.php


Rob has a chipbreaker that is extra thick, but still fits the old planes.

"Through this inspection I found that the the bevel face of the .125" thick blade will indeed make contact with the back of the sole, and the sole will then lift the blade off the frog surface and force the blade back to contact the front of the throat. BUT ONLY after the blade was extended well beyond any realistic cutting depth! HOT DIGGITY DOG!!! No filing necessary baby!!! "- Lie-Nielsen Blade on a Bailey 5-1/2

[matt braun]

Thanks for all your input. I got around to filing the throat and it now works great. It only took about three minutes, but I worried about it for about three months.

[Rob Lee]

Thanks for all your input. I got around to filing the throat and it now works great. It only took about three minutes, but I worried about it for about three months.

Measure twice - file once!

Glad it worked out for you!

Cheers -

Rob