Advice on potential table saw buy -- Delta Model 10

[Tim Morton]

that near new craftsman looks nice...but googling it shows that it is a hybrid saw, and not a true cabinet saw...$600 seems a little steep to me unless it literally is like brand new. I might offer him $525 if you had cash in hand and were ready to go pick it up.

That old craftsman will end up costing you more that $600 by the time you factor in labor...and ask your self the gut check question...are you up for that big of a project?

[John W Henderson]

Tim -- yes, that's quite nice. It is hybrid, but has cabinet mounted trunnions. Seems to get pretty much fantastic reviews wherever I've looked for it (model 22124) and it has a real Biese fence. Searching allofcraigslist reveals them for anywhere between $5-800 or so. I wrote him a lengthy reply talking about my plight and initial aim to get a saw for between $2-400... trying to prime the pump. He's a retired woodshop teacher, so I also sent him a couple pictures of my work... have to use all the tools at my disposal here... That would be the most workable saw I've found yet. Ready to rock.

There's still some Unis with "real" fences, but they are really old and just not sure if they are in the same ready-to-go shape:
- 1939 Uni with Vega, $700: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/tls/2528403908.html
- Uni with Bies 52", $850: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/tls/2461928834.html
- Rockwell with Bies looking fence, $749: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hn...497729284.html
- Uni with 50" Bies, $850: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/tls/2446681471.html

There's a couple with three phase. I know I have 220, just never used it so don't know if it's single or three. That might be an issue, but it's easier to re-wire the saw for single than wire in 220V to my garage! They are all pretty darn old models, it looks like.

One thing a friend just re-reminded me about is a guard/splitter. This doesn't have that and many of the old Unisaws don't either. He suggested that regardless of the saw I get, if it doesn't have safety features like that, I'll want another one. What are my options with respect to aftermarket options?

Lastly, with the old Cman... I can handle time. Say, weekends and evenings for a month on and off. That wouldn't bother me. My biggest concern by far is knowing that I'm getting an accurate machine that's not worn out (say the arbor was deformed or something was bent/twisted in a non-major way but such that it affected accuracy), robust, built to last, and will be adjustable and then stay how adjusted. If a Cman like the old one meets those criteria... I'm game.

[Tim Morton]

stay away from 3 phase...you don't have it...and you would require a new motor or a 3phase converter....as samuel l jackson said in pulp fiction...that would have to be one charming pig to make it worth buying a 3 phase saw.

[Cary Falk]

One thing a friend just re-reminded me about is a guard/splitter. This doesn't have that and many of the old Unisaws don't either. He suggested that regardless of the saw I get, if it doesn't have safety features like that, I'll want another one. What are my options with respect to aftermarket options?

Shark Guard (splitter and guard in one)
Excalibur overarm guard
Exactor overarm guard
Beisemeyer overarm guard

Beisemeyer snap in spitter( For Uni and PM66)
MicroJig splitter
B.O.R.K

[Reagen Ward]

I have no personal experience with either the Rigid or the Grizzly - both look quite decent. The Delta, however, I can say has a decent stock fence and lots of parts available for cheap, and was US made, which may or may not matter to you, but always curries favor with me. I know folks who worked at Delta's shops in MS and TN, so that also brings bias.In the end, it's a contractor saw. It can be made to be quite accurate as long as the two rods weren't twisted by a previous owner. It is a lot cheaper than a cabinet saw, and probably more easily resold. My delta contractor sold on the day I listed it, with no pictures. Buy the one you can afford that feels right at the time, sems to be straight (use it before buying), and is available at the right price. All three brands are good.

[Reagen Ward]

Camera folk, in the days of film, used to get all worked up over brands and models of camera bodies, with religious wars worse than you can imagine. In the end, a camera is a box that holds the two of the three things that do matter: The film and the lens. Naturally, the third thing is the person. The body is just a box. Sure, it may have features that are convenient, but they don't matter one bit if the three ceitical components aren't good enough. I said GOOD ENOUGH, not great. My wife and I have only been published in magazines for our work done on blueprint paper with beater lenses from ebay. A saw is pretty much the same thing. Fence, blade, person. The tables matter some, as do the motor and linkage, those are nice features that don't matter if the three critical components aren't good enough. All three choices are fine. If you get one and find the fence to be inadequate, get a new one on the used market and you'll have a great fence for whatever saw comes later. Like a great lens.

[John W Henderson]

Shark Guard (splitter and guard in one)

Awesome -- thanks for providing that. Did not know about them.

MicroJig splitter

Wow -- that's it? That's quite interesting.

B.O.R.K

Not familiar with that acronym...

[Tim Morton]

B.o.r.k Bolt on ripping knife

http://www.the****store.com/category.sc?categoryId=4

[Geoff Barry]

Well, I think you need to decide if you want to be in the woodworking business, or the restoration business Some folks really really like restoring old equipment. Others prefer to focus on the wood working. Know which you are, and act accordingly

As for your options:

Grizzly cabinet saw - looks like it's coming our of an industrial set-up, so maybe a bit beat-up. If it's not beat-up, or too old (industrial life can be hard on bearings and motors) , I'd lean toward this - though you would need to look into a splitter/guard. (probably $2-300 or so minimum)

Ridgid: looks kind of rusty - as mentioned before, new it probably was $500-550. If rust is just surface rust (no pitting, rest of saw looks good) I's offer $250. Of course, if there's no guard/splitter, you have to factor that in.

Griz 1022: posting is down, so I'm assuming it's gone

Sears 22124: I'm biased here, becasue I have one and think it is great. Far better than any contractor saw, certainly. It's not a 3 hp cabinet saw - it's a 1.5hp cabinet saw, with a great fence and a good guard/splitter. If the Grizzly cabinet saw doesn't look great, then this would be my choice. And you wouldn't have to get anything extra - once you hd this, you'd be set.

Old Craftman: I'm not interested in spending my time restoring old equipment, so I'm biased against this from the start. And then, even if you do restore it, you end up with a 1hp contractor saw with webbed extensions, an old motor, and an uncertain fence. Sure, you can replace the fence, but that'll cost $2-300. If you were planning to restore a Yates 28" Snowflake, or something like that, it'd make sense to me, but otherwise . . . however, if you're that sort of person, then the joy of restoring it may exceed the downsides

[scott spencer]

I had a 22124 for over 3 years just prior to getting a 3hp Shop Fox saw...great saw, loved it. 12" solid cast iron wings give it 44" of surface, the fence is great, it weighs ~425# and is very stable, enough power to cut through just about anything if it's aligned well and you have the correct blade in place (mine did great with good quality thin kerf blades). It will accept the B.O.R.K, which I now have on my Shop Fox....works very well BTW, and Bob Ross is a super guy to deal with.



In case you haven't seen inside a 22124, here's a look at the guts:

[John W Henderson]

Thanks for the advice everyone! Hope not to disappoint... but I just came back with the old Craftsman In the end, it came down to quite the combination of things. I liked that some here were fans, and the comments on some of the restorations at OWWM were very, very positive. The saw is a 103.27270, which is relatively rare compared to the plethora of "benchtop" Cmans more commonly found around.

I was really, really interested in that 22124, but at the end of the day my wife just wasn't comfortable with a $600 saw. Bummer, as I think it was by far the most capable and ready-to-go right now deal that there was. I never heard back from the Iowa Grizzly cabinet saw guy, and couldn't get the Ridgid 3650 owner to write back after two attempts either.

In response to the woodworker vs. restorer comment... I think I'm both I really do like rebuilding things. My road bike is a 1984 Schwinn and before I rode it (aside from when I bought it), I took the entire thing apart and rebuilt it. Just rebuilt my older HD77 circular saw a couple weeks ago, too. Just cause.

I am a tinkerer and really look forward to putting some love into this saw. I think it will turn out really nicely and I'm not so bothered by any of the issues. I think I can make due with it just fine for my hobby projects -- it seems extremely well built thus far, and again, the comments by other owners made a big impact here as well. The same would have been true with the 22124 as I don't own one, so praise from those who do makes a big impact.

Anyway, I'll start a new thread on the restore and probably double post here and at OWWM, as I think it would be a valuable thread for both places. I'm thinking about a month. It's in really good shape, so not anticipating anything expensive or extensive. I also happen to have access to a bead blaster, machining mill, lathe, automotive repair equipment (sanders, spray guns), etc. through work... so that will help.

Thanks sooooo much for all the input. I think I did the best I could for the time being. The cabinet saws that were out there (aside from the hybrid Cman) would have had the same limitations (fence, guarding, etc.) and been more expensive. I realize they would have been a definitely lifelong saw... but the wife is happy with what the wife is happy with.

This was my first longer-ish experience on a thread with Creekers and I've truly appreciated everyone's input. Thanks so much for such a great round of suggestions and input. I'll be sticking around!

[James White]

John,

One of the rules here. No pictures. It didn't happen. We like pictures!

James

[John W Henderson]

One of the rules here. No pictures. It didn't happen. We like pictures!

Haha! I can do that. I took pictures as soon as I got home Drove 2.5 hrs north with my wife and youngest daughter (1 yr) to lake Superior, got the saw, had lunch overlooking a lift bridge in Duluth, MN, had dinner at the sister in law's on the way back and then wrestled that beast out of our van.

- Front: http://i.imgur.com/fteB0.jpg
- Back: http://i.imgur.com/Z8n3E.jpg
- CI wings and some new blades that came with it: http://i.imgur.com/Ux0TL.jpg
- Fence, F&B rails, miter gauge, a Sears "universal jig," and some misc old blades: http://i.imgur.com/x6qEZ.jpg

So there ya go. I was bummed that the original owner cut a hole in the front for that door. It should look like a solid cabinet. I'm going to weld something in there and Bondo it smooth. All in all it's in fantastically good shape. Just a little rust toward the bottom of the cabinet and that's about it. I think it will clean up really nicely. Couldn't get over how these can look when done: http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=11244

Oh, and I could not believe how quiet induction motors are. Mine has an under table mounted universal motor. This thing is so darn quiet. It's crazy. I've been missing out!

Look for me to start a refurb thread soon. First I've got to get my other saw cleaned up, put together, and sold, though!

[scott spencer]

Now that it's official...congrats! That's a pretty sweet refurb project. Have fun, and be sure to get a decent blade for it.

[James White]

John,

Congratulation! It looks like you hit the sweet spot for your price range/needs. I have never seen that saw before. It certainly looks well built. This whole thing has been an adventure for you and now your family. Looking forward to seeing the restoration.

James