Using a Card Scraper for Figured Maple. Good idea? Possible?

[David Weaver]

It doesn't need to scrape, planing is preferable, anyway, because it will work on woods that are marginal in hardness for a nice scraped finish.

For economy, If I were in your shoes, I would build a single iron plane in krenov style if functionality is your concern, and build it with a 55 degree angle and a mouth that is nonexistent at first (i.e., exactly closed at the iron edge). You can open it a few thousandths after that to create a very tight mouth that makes it very hard for you to worsen any tearout situation.

It should negate the need to scrape at all if built properly (and you can build it quickly).

Also, using a single iron will allow you to do neater mouth work with a mouth that follows the iron more closely (which will stay tightly closed as you lap the bottom of the plane in the future). Doing so with a double iron will create clearance problems for chip flow.

I don't favor that type of plane (I recognize that it's very effective) and built a couple of infills instead, but same premise - very tight mouth, 55 degrees and single heavy iron. For curly maple, they are essentially foolproof. I have not scraped any figured wood since I built them.

Save the japanese plane venture for later, it is not the best solution for immediate use on curly maple for someone who is not a japanese plane user. Consider anyone who tells you otherwise to be semi-religious about using japanese planes (I have a lot of them, I use them on curly maple, it's not the place to start with them).

Thick O1 would be my first choice for an iron. There's no need to have a laminated iron, especially if you are going to power grind (and you should unless you want to sharpen for entertainment).

[Mike Holbrook]

Actually I may have the plane you mention in kit form now Dave. Steve Knight made two 7.5" plane kits for me. One of the kits was made with a higher, 55 I think, blade angle. The plane kits Steve built for me are all single iron, built to have adjustable mouths. The kit is similar to a typical HNT Gordon plane, even the blade angle.

I have Steve's remaining 01 1/4" blade stock too, 12 of them. I ordered a small Japanese plane from Tools From Japan with normal blade angle to try out. TFJ has planes with higher angles too but I will learn more about those steels and the care and feeding of that type plane before I invest in them.

[David Weaver]

Steve's irons are the ones i was thinking about, but I didn't want to throw that out there and make it sound like you need to have his.

Steve's O1 irons, at least the three that I've used, are better than any other O1 iron that I've used. They are hard but not chippy and take a very nice edge.

Care with the bedding of the iron is also important (the iron should have pressure at the top and close to the mouth and be evenly bedded laterally), but it sounds like you have what you need to make just the tool for the job.

You will enjoy the japanese planes, I think. The margin for error is just a bit narrower (on figured woods with a lower angle). The couple of times I've used a japanese plane on curly maple, I used a standard 8/10 plane (about 40 degrees in effective cutting angle, and a little less than that at the bed), but I have steeper - they just generally aren't necessary for the thin slices you'll take with a smoother. But an unexpected deep cut can create pretty spectacular tearout, and if you make a purpose-built 55º plane with a tight mouth and a well bedded iron, you will be challenged to get any surface imperfections above and beyond "a tiny bit fuzzy in a spot" in curly maple.

[Pam Niedermayer]

David mentioned building a plane especially for handling these tough woods. Since that happens to be something I have been doing lately I am curious what type plane/set up others might use for this work. There are some Japanese planes, Pam mentioned. I have been studying those designed to tune plane bottoms with high angle blades. I was thinking about building a plane specifically for a laminated blade at high angle. I think this type plane could accomplish similar results to a scraper? It would seem that the heavier blade might have advantages and maybe some disadvantages. I am guessing that such a plane would need to be constructed and set up with tight tolerances to "scrape" that small a shaving in tough wood, which is why I am saving it for last.

I've never worked with curly maple (no particular reason, never came across a supply), so I'm not all that sure how to handle the tear out you're experiencing. The Japanese scrapers are used to scrape plane soles made of Japanese white and red oak, plus Hon red, a specially hard oak, most likely much harder than curly maple, more like ironwood (from which the HNT's are made).

Making such a scraper is no big deal, mouth is fairly wide, insert blade and scrape. Of course, my saying that is probably an indication of my hopeless obsession with Japanese planes, NOT.

Pam

[Bruce Volden]

Seems I remember reading about someone "misting" the wood with H2O to raise fibers and then using a plane. Correct me if'n I'm wrong.

Bruce

[Steve Branam]

First watch the youtube video by William Ng on how to sharpen a card scraper. This video is so good. It also will teach you how to hold a card scraper.

Wow, beautiful! Here's the link to his video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz6EpQu2HRo.

This is the video that brought me success: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKZWqdPFul8&NR=1. His method is very similar to Ng's.

You'll notice that they both take just a quick swipe with the burnisher, and it's ready to go. Seems like the most common mistake is trying to muscle the burr over like you were trying to bend 1" steel plate by hand: clamp it in a vise and apply two-handed pressure on the burnisher. I certainly made that mistake until I saw this. That's probably the correct method for rolling the edge to make it safe, not sharp!

[Harvey Pascoe]

I'm surprised no one mentioned this: When scraping curly figure you must NOT scrape parallel to the wavy figure. You should scrape at an angle of 30 degrees or more to the figure. The reason is some parts of the figure are harder/softer and if you are scraping parallel, you are gouging out soft material between the waves and will end up with a wavy surface. That is why you aren't getting a consistent curl.

As for planers/jointers, if you hand hone your knives to 4000 or better you can plane the worst figured wood w/o any tear out. I do it all the time and my scrapers are more or less retired.

As for using a hand plane w/o tear out, I've never been able do it except for a scraper plane.

[Steve Branam]

Here's an additional video of Dougal Charteris using the scraper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAlcgWKdIlo

As long as we're looking at his stuff, this one is a truly minimalist approach to flattening the back and sharpening a chisel (this is a new blue-handle fresh out of the package): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxgXlKOw5d8. It also shows a quick free-hand stropping with a loose piece of leather.

Sadly, though his website says he is going to add more stuff (in 2009), this is about all he ever posted. I would love to see much more from him.

[Nick Sorenson]

Those are great videos. His card scraper videos look like they're from 2010. I am getting curls on hard non figured maple just fine. I think I was pressing too hard and too many strokes with the burnisher. I'm still not getting curls like Dougal is getting though. That's really something!

[george wilson]

We kept our planer at work adjusted to not snipe. My 15" planer at home does not snipe either. They must be properly adjusted,though.

A planer that has regular blades that have a bevel ground on the leading edge will plane figured woods quite well without tearing,because the negative cutting angle scrapes rather than cuts. Takes more power,of course,but with a decent motor,it is fine. I never have taken off real heavy cuts anyway.The Northfield planer in the millwork shop has unusual segmented carbide inserts in it. They are unlike the common Byrd or Shelix spiral heads offered in some new planers. These inserts are nearly vertical,and are reground with a grinding attachment on the planer,rather similarly to the normal type of grinding attachments that are used with conventional knife planers. I have run curly maple through that planer with NO tear out at all. It is a great planer. Rather scary to put a nice figured plank of maple through it,but it NEVER tears!! That scraping action really works.

I have a little Delta lunchbox planer that works really well,too. We had one at work that would plane some woods smoother than the big Powermatic. I got one for home because of that,but my Bridgewood 15" planes so well I haven't had to use the Delta. I had thought it would be nice to just take it outside and generate mulch,rather than cleaning out the too small dust collector drum. Haven't made any large projects for a while,though.

If you have several boards to plane,and you can't manage to get your planer to not snipe,butt each board against the last. Then,only the last one will get sniped.

[Chris Fournier]

Scraping curly maple is tricky. Curly maple is a funky combination of end and long grain and the card scraper will follow the grain and you'll end up with an undulating surface that follows the grain. Not nice under a finish I can assure you. As has been mentioned you'd be best off to have a very sharp benchplane and use this to obtain a decent flat surface. Do some testing and you'll see what I mean.

[george wilson]

I worked with curly maple on a great many of the stringed instruments I made. Scraping at an angle is definitely a good thing to do. I also used to just plane straight ACROSS the grain to get most of the planing done without tear out,then scrape at an angle. You do have to have skill to keep the board true and flat planing across the grain,but it can be learned.

[Derek Cohen]

I am new to scrapers, just picked up a Bahco Scraper and put a burr on the edge. I noticed that as I'm planing figured maple it's tearing out quite a bit. I'm getting sawdust at times and curls at times. It's hard to get consistent curls. So far sandpaper seems to be a better option but being new I wanted to ask.

Hi Nick

The William Ng video is good. However he could emphasise something a little more, a point that tends to be not well understood by those new to cabinet/card scrapers. This is drawing out the edge before turning the burr. I just cannot emphasise enough how important this part of the edge preparation is. It is more important than the angle you turn the burr (I turn the burr at about 10 degrees, and if you go higher than this all you do is adjust the angle at which you scrape. No big deal). You cannot turn a burr without first drawing out the edge. No edge, no sharpness, only dust.

You get tearout if the edge is rough. Or the grain is soft and running in the other direction.



Regards from Perth

Derek

[Prashun Patel]

Derek and the others are far more experienced than I. However, I can say that I do not draw nout the burr, yet I am able to scrape fine. Perhaps my edges are not quite as durable and perhaps my final surface is not as smooth, but I can take shavings very well. All I do is file the edge relatively square with a mill file. Then I use a screwdriver or burnisher to roll the edge - about 4-5 times.

I think there are lots of nuances which will improve yr results. However, for learning to just make shavings (IMHO, the hardest part of learning to use a scraper), I think a simple prep style like mine might be easier to master.

Once you 'get it', it's like magic eye; you'll wonder how you had a tough time doing it before. Like riding a bike. Just keep practicing.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Prashun

I do question the surface quality you get with your method.

If you use this for a finish, do you get a reflective surface after scraping?



Think of the profile of the blade as if it was a molding plane - the mill file marks will transfer to the wood. That is why one takes the time to finish the edge to a mirror, just like any plabe blade. I would be interested in the results you get from comparing the two methods.

Regards from Perth

Derek