What diamond product to purchase for stone lapping?

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

So using diamond products to lap waterstones has come up a few times in threads here recently, and it's been something that's kicking around in the back of my head for a while now, so sooner or later I should bite the bullet. It's certainly on my short list after a couple of other tool purchases. I like the idea of not dealing with sandpaper and adhesive and a piece of granite, and I like the idea of a plate over loose grit for simplicities sake.

Right now I'm using a 1000,5000, and 8000 set of the Naniwa "Super Stones". I might "upgrade" someday, but I have no idea if that's a proposition that's worth it or not; I've limited experience with different sharpening media. Regardless, I like the edges I'm getting, and while I may experiment by adding a higher polishing stone, I'll probably be using these until they run out; there's a lot better things I could be using my money on.

I know the sandpaper stone-flattening thing works for me now, but it's annoying, and most likely more expensive. What should I look at for a diamond plate/stone? I see the "Dia-Flat", which is supposedly made for this sort of thing, but runs more than my three stones cost me. "Dia-Sharp" are on sale at Woodcraft, but don't come nearly as large, and I guess aren't made with stone lapping in mind. There's other options at Stu's store, I haven't looked at the Yen/USD conversion rates yet, though. There's the perforated style diamond plates both by DMT and some other brand at the box stores. I'm sure there's plenty more out there.

So I have no idea what's the best bet here. I imagine at some point you get what you pay for, but I'm willing to sacrifice some to save on cost. If a more mid-priced option gets me half the life, but saves me considerably up front, it may be worth it for now.

I'm not a sharpening aficionado by any means. I know what sharp is, and a few ways to get there, but in the end I prefer slightly cheaper and slightly less messy, and then to just get back to work. Is there something I should look for in a product (other than flat, of course.)? Anyone got some pointers?

[Chris Vandiver]

Bite the bullet and get this; http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/TDIAFLAT.htm

You won't regret it and in the long run you'll save money. Just remember to use these plates on your stones only(that is if you want them to last).

[David Weaver]

what is the grit of the diaflat plate?

[David Weaver]

I would get a duosharp from ebay or wherever, with the stones you mentioned, you want a 325 side on it somewhere. If you need something more coarse than that, the stones are getting too out of flat before you dress them.

I paid $60 for one with shipping the last time I bought, W8FC... or something, Fine/Coarse , which IIRC is 325/600. Bought one for a buddy, too, and bought one for schtoo with a stand (he can't get them in japan) for about $65.

That and the atomas have all worked fine for me, and anything I've used has been good as long as it doesn't get used for tool steel.

[Fred Krow]

The Dia-Flat Lapping Plate is 120 micron and is made for flattening not sharpening.

Regards,
FK

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Is it something about tool steel in particular to watch out for; or using it on metal in general? I've heard good things about using these for fret levelling; normal fretwire is considerably softer than tool steel.

When you mention I want a 325 side for my stones; is that because of the materials that make up my stones, or the coarseness of grit of the stones I mentioned? I find 220 or 320 wet dry sandpaper works quickly (while it's fresh) as I try and make an effort to use the entirety of my stones.

I've also seen a video where folks lapped their coarsest stone, and then flattened the others against each other, lapping each stones against the next one coarser. I didn't have the greatest results with this as I found the "stiction" tough to overcome; (although that was also right about the time things were flattened) but does anyone have comments on that method?

[Chris Griggs]

By all accounts I've heard the no. 1 choice would be the Atoma 400, which will run you about $100-$120 shipped. Second choice would be an iWood (from tools from japan) or a duosharp. I've used both the duosharp and iWood for flattening and they work well. Supposedly the atoma is better. I'd stay away from the dmt diasharps - many people use them with success, but I'm not a fan of them. Regarding the diaflat - never used it - but I personally wouldn't spend that money when there are so many other good options out there, but thats just me.

[Bob Warfield]

I don't know about all this sharpening business. It sure seems to me that the "latest greatest this is what you need" seems to change every couple of months. I started out with automotive sandpaper and a granite stone from Woodcraft. It got all my edge tools very sharp but almost always dubbed over the corners of my chisels, a good thing on the plane blades. After attending a couple of LN Tool Events I switched to Norton waterstones. I kept them flat on the granite stone & sandpaper combination. After the most recent Tool Event in St. Louis I was told I really needed the 4"X10" DMT bench stone for flatening my waterstones so I bought it and it does work very well. It seems that now all the sudden that isn't any good, I need the new diamond steel plate! I have added a 16,000 Shapton just to satisfy my curiosity but until ALL this is completely worn out, I'm done.
Good Luck,
Bob

[David Weaver]

Bob, let us know when you've worn that thing out. That's my thought about needing something better (as in you'll have forgotten what the dia flat plate is before you wear out your hone - as long as you save at least one side for stones only).

For anyone who *does* manage to wear the diamond electroplate off of a hone, buy $20 worth of 100-220 grit diamonds or something of the like and smash them into the hone surface by lapping something on it. The loose diamonds will come off pretty easily. If you have any fear about leaving a stray diamond on a waterstone, rinse off the stone and feel the surface. If you can't feel grit, it's not there.

Joshua - you are right, I mention that grit because it is acceptably fast for the 1000 stone, but it will also leave a reasonably nice surface on your polishing stone. I do not like ultra coarse stones for fine hones. You should see what the razor guys do to their stones - they're nuts. Somewhere between coarse and what they do is a good compromise, and I think 325 grit is right around there.

I have used my atoma on stones that are so hard that it's difficult to raise a slurry with them with a diamond hone, and it is still in good shape. I made the mistake of ultimately using the DMT on steel, and wore it out probably by rubbing diamonds off of it. It is just about spent, but I use it to scuff a HTA arkansas once in a while. At some point, i'll refresh it with diamond powder and use it as a hone again. To date, I've bought 6 electroplate hones...er 7. Two are dedicated stone only hones (one oil stone, one waterstone), they are both still fresh - they'll get damaged from being dropped before they wear out. Two I flat wore out using them, they hardly cut at all, and the others I still have around to use on steel. I think all but the two that I use on the stones were a waste of money.

[Stuart Tierney]

By all accounts I've heard the no. 1 choice would be the Atoma 400, which will run you about $100-$120 shipped. Second choice would be an iWood (from tools from japan) or a duosharp. I've used both the duosharp and iWood for flattening and they work well. Supposedly the atoma is better. I'd stay away from the dmt diasharps - many people use them with success, but I'm not a fan of them. Regarding the diaflat - never used it - but I personally wouldn't spend that money when there are so many other good options out there, but thats just me.

Umm...

Yeah...

Might want to check that, there's been a slight (conditional) price adjustment...

Surprised nobody has picked up on it yet. It's been up for a week.


Stu.

[David Weaver]

i did! I like to think the whole thing was partly my idea! Minus the diamond hone, at least (that is a nice twist, though).

[Stuart Tierney]

i did! I like to think the whole thing was partly my idea! Minus the diamond hone, at least.

Actually, you probably had something to do with it. As per usual...

I've been thinking about it for some time, and how to implement it. Then I read something about using sandpaper for flattening and how the diamond plates were a waste of money and whatnot and sandpaper was cheap, cheerful and had no downsides.

I got a bee in my bonnet, and decided that if sandpaper was really good, could it compete with a (kinda) free diamond plate?

Survey says "not a chance"


Your speckly yellow thing shown up yet?

Stu.

[Chris Griggs]

Umm...

Yeah...

Might want to check that, there's been a slight (conditional) price adjustment...

Surprised nobody has picked up on it yet. It's been up for a week.


Stu.

Yep saw that on your site yesterday. Good deal - REALLY good deal actually. Folks in the market for new stones would have to be nuts not to take you up on that. However, as you know I already have some stones from you on the way. Can't wait for my speckley egg colored thing to show up.

[Stuart Tierney]

Chris, yours are not speckly yellow, just yellow and speckly pink.

But buttah smooth.


Stu.

(How the heck do I shift 3 dozen stones I made a mistake with quickly? Hmm...)

[Chris Fournier]

Buy yourself a 12"X18"X3" granite inspection plate and use wet/dry paper. You can level all of your water stones with this set up and use the inspection plate to lap planes, chisels etc. I costs less than a diamond plate as well.