Sole of a Bench Plane vs a Jointer or Planer...something not adding up for me

[George Farra]

Hi Everyone

I've recently gotten into handtools and have bought some used bailey planes....#4, 5, and now looking for a 7 or 8. I also have 2 block planes....low angle and standard angle.

Based on everything I have read about tuning up a plane you need to lap the sole flat...so here is where my power tool brain is not understanding how things work here. A jointer and planer do not have coplaner surfaces. The infeed is lower than the out feed, thus to support the work after its gone past the cutter.

How does the same occur with a handplane if the sole is lapped flat...so that the sole in front of the iron and behind the iron are coplaner? What am I missing here??

TIA

George

[Jim Koepke]

The real difference is in the amount of wood being removed on each pass.

With a hand plane, a .010" shaving is a tough job. With a jointer or planer, .010" is just getting started.

jtk

[Chuck Nickerson]

Another way to think about it: as you're handplaning the front of the plane is riding on wood that has not been shaved.
The back of the plane is riding on wood that has been shaved. Therefore, although the surface on the plane bottom is
co-planer, the other reference surfaces, wood in front and behind the cutting edge, are not co-planer.

[Rodney Walker]

With a power jointer, the outfeed table is generally set the same height with the knives with the infeed table set lower than the level of the knives. Raising and lowering the infeed table determines how much is removed with each pass. A handplane is flat with the edge of the iron barely sticking out past the surface of the sole. The distance the iron sticks out determines the depth of cut. I'm new to the world of hand planes so I'm still learning the finer points as well.
Rodney

[Sean Hughto]

Think of it like this, the part of the sole behind the blade only really matters when the part in front of the blade is off the board.

(by the way - by "off" I mean "not in contact with" and not just hanging over the edge in space)

[Sean Hughto]

By the way, a Stanley 75 has a nose that sits slightly higher than the sole behind the blade:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...ch&um=1&itbs=1

[James Watson]

As Jim said, the key is in the very small amount of material being removed. As i understand it, a perfectly flat plane will actually create a slightly concave surface on the wood. The length of the plane, elasticity of the wood, and thinness of the shaving all contribute toward making this concavity almost undetectable.

The same can be true of a power jointer - some people recommend that you intentionally set the knives to be 1 or 2 thousandths higher than the outfeed table. Theoretically, this should result in a concave workpiece, but that's not the case - at least not enough to be detected during your glue-ups, etc.

Unless I'm dead wrong, of course. If so, I'm sure one of our local experts will chime in. In the meantime, this explanation is at least sufficient to allow me to sleep at night. :-)

[Salem Ganzhorn]

It may not be intuitive but in use a plane tends to make a hump not a valley. It is a good idea to not plane the ends of the board until the the center is pretty much flat. Then take shavings over the full length. Stop as soon as you get a shaving over the full length.

If the sole is not flat you will not be able to take thin shavings.

Salem

[Richard Magbanua]

The other big difference between the corded and cordless versions is the amount of participation needed to get good results. With an electric planer or jointer you set the machine and send the wood through and life is good. Sure, there are a few things to keep in mind like safety, but it's pretty straightforward. A hand plane, on the other hand requires full, active participation. You need to check the board for it's curves and undulations, grain direction, etc. Then you have to choose the right plane to begin evening out the "landscape", finding out how much the wood and plane will let you take away without ruining your job. Even when the jointer plane says, "It's flat, boss" I'll still check with a straight-edge. Even then after the final smoothing there will remain a lot of "imperfections" on the surface but this may be considered by many to be a welcome sign of hand-work.

[Greg Wease]

I strongly disagree with you Richard. If by "active participation" you mean thinking about what you are doing, don't you do that before using a jointer and planer? Failure to note grain direction can cause massive tearout on some wood and you can't change direction as you can with a handplane. The boards that I surface with handplanes have far fewer "imperfections" than the mill marks from jointers and planers. And "a few things to keep in mind like safety" is the understatement of the century. I have a friend who lost 3 fingers due to a jointer kickback--I don't worry that with my #7.

[George Farra]

Guys

Thank you all for your input. It is much appreciatted. Its starting to make sense that given the minimal amount of wood taken by each pass the issue of "support" for infeed and outfeed sides is not as significant. I also started to think about how I use a hand plane and I definately apply downward pressure on the front knob and push through via the rear tote.

Regarding the safety issues raised, I also agree that hand planes and less dangerous that power planers/jointers...that said, I'm sure there are ways to mame yourself with a handplane.....so my general rule is to proceed with caution and think through anything I'm doing in the shop as best as my simple brain can handle

Thanks everyone

George

[Dan Barr]

he he he,

warping the brain, flattening the board.

i brought up this same topic. here is the link to the smc thread. copy and paste the address.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...eory-(planing)


this should cover any remaining theory not mentioned in this go round.

cheers,
dan

[Bob Jones]

I have found that older books are the best source of info on using hand tools. Robert wearing, Charles Hayward, Bernard jones books are all availavble cheap and IMHO are much better than most of the current generation of hand tool books (with a couple of schwartian exceptions)

[John Toigo]

The knob is for holding the plane on the board & steering, the handle is for pushing the plane across the board. If you use the plane that way it all becomes a natural rhythm and it's easy. If you push down on the handle and the knob it gets a little more difficult.