Obviously not strong enough, or more people would be willing to pony up for their own safety.Originally Posted by Mike Henderson
Member
Obviously not strong enough, or more people would be willing to pony up for their own safety.
Contributor
On the job, the person who provides the tools is the employer (the chicken). The employee (the pig) uses the tools provided. Since the chicken is only involved, and not committed like the pig, someone else (OSHA) has to come along and force the chicken to provide a safe working environment. Pretty straight forward.
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Member
Love the analogy.
Ok so I have a Saw Stop so which am I the Pig or the Chicken?
The last time I saw the light at the end of the tunnel it was another train heading at me...
Member
Reminds me of George Orwell's Animal Farm, in more ways than one.
dave
Contributor
You are the (Guinnea) pig...
I drink, therefore I am.
Contributor
Except there, the pigs had the power. "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others." Great story. Has some relevance to things in the news today, doesn't it.
Mike
Last edited by Mike Henderson; 10-13-2011 at 8:57 PM.
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Member
Yes, and so does "1984", unfortunately, as well as Huxley's Brave New World.
Contributor
Mike, I also posted my comments on the proposed safety standard, and am in full support of developing a new standard based upon an active safety system. There simply isn't a good reason to not adopt better safety systems as they become available.
regards, Rod.
Contributor
Hi John, actually European saws can be used with dado cutters, they cannot however take standard dado blades without modification.
My Euro saw is available with the dado option, and I purchased it with that option. The Euro dado cutters look like a shaper cutter rather than a saw blade with chippers. The issue is blade braking, the saw blades and cutters have pins that prevent them from slipping on the arbour, so the dado cutters have to be bored to accept these pins. I purchased a Canadian made dado set and had the manufacturer bore it for my saw.
Forrest offer a stocked dado set with the same bore configuration for Felder saws.
The other issue is guarding of the dado cutter, the EU requires an overarm guard when using a dado cutter.
Since the EU has a blade braking time requirement, a saw has to be designed to brake a dado cutter in the same time period as a single saw blade. (Increased stored energy).
John, I have no idea what the form the legislation will take, however it will be a solution provided by the manufacturers, to comply with a standard, just like everywhere else in the world. My saw complies with the EU guidelines, just like all the other EU saws. The EU saws have higher safety standards than NA saws, and generally have more features and capabilities, as well as having higher safety.
Safety and functionality aren't mutually exclusive, a couple of days ago I was cutting some triangular 2" X 2" X whatever corner blocks out of 3/4" plywood on my tablesaw. With a sliding saw and the eccentric clamp mounted on the slider I was able to safely cut those blocks with my fingers a couple of feet away from the blade, with all the guards in place. Safety and increased functionality in one package, from the manufacturer.
Regards, Rod.
P.S. My Euro shaper also has blade braking, another EU safety requirement..........Maybe it is a slope John.
Contributor
I believe your saw was modified for North American markets, which European saw manufactures ARE allowed to do. Every reference I can find on the subject indicates that European saws sold in Europe can not accept dado blades.
How ironic is it that the SawStop can not currently be sold in Europe because it doesn't meet their safety requirements? If proposed flesh sensing technology requirement is adopted, how silly would it be that "safer" European saws can no longer be imported because they wouldn't meet OUR safety requirements.
Last edited by John Coloccia; 10-14-2011 at 9:27 AM.
Contributor
Hi John, that's not correct, Felder sell their saws in Europe with the dado option, and sell the dado cutters for them.
The SawStop wouldn't meet the Eu blade braking requirement, however that's easy to add to an SS machine. They also may not meet the EU dust emmision or noise requirements, however that's speculation on my part.
The flesh sensing technology is only one aspect of saw safety, it doesn't prevent injury due to kick backs, high noise levels, dust emmisions etc.
I'm in favour of better saw safety standards, our poor safety record indicates that either we need better machines, better operators, or both.
it's funny how some features of a saw can affect safety such as a rip fence. After decades of using the standard NA fences, I now have a 3 function fence similar to the Delta Unifence. Now I can rip thin strips with a push stick conveniently, without having the guard interfere.
I can also rip solid material with the fence pulled forward, or use the fence in the forward position as a length stop block without pieces wedged between the fence and the blade. It's so simple, yet such a safety improvement, why don't all NA saws come with that fence flexibility?
We've done it to ourselves, once injuries become a large issue it becomes a legislative safety issue and then what we couldn't solve on our own, will be solved for us.
Regards, Rod.
Member
Be careful of what you ask for.
Baby crib standards made old cribs illegal to sell, even if they are used, that table saw you now have may end up worth nothing more than scrap value.
Next will be bandsaws, miter saws, radial arm saws, etc.
Dave
Member
OR ... the opposite could be true -- at least for some period of time -- as buyers of that sort of power tool decide to save a bit, by buying used instead of new, driving up the demand for the pre-whatever saws
[OP]
Member
Not to change the direction of this thread, but for all those who are worried about the outcome- what the "rule" (if there is a rule at all) will mandate, you must remember that a number of steps are required before it is finalized and published. And then it could take quite a few years before it takes full affect- there could be a graduated phase-in consisting of many small steps. Many of us could be wearing Depends and keeping our teeth in a jar on the nightstand by the time it takes effect.
Contributor
Hehe, Rod, I did find it a bit funny that the words "SS" and Europe were in the same sentence...even if SS meant Saw Stop. Sorry, my German heritage brain just went there...
I drink, therefore I am.
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