paraphernalia.... wheres the line?

[Derek Gilmer]

Curtis do you know what hashish smells like while it's being smoked? Just because I don't smell pot doesn't mean an illegal substance isn't being used. I think that if the RA, GA, campus police or even the local police didn't at least stop and ask what the college students in question were doing and if they could see some legal form of identification then they wouldn't be doing their job.

You have to remember that if you draw attention to yourself you'll get attention....maybe not the kind you want but you'll get attention.

Jerry

Police or campus security asking questions is a far different matter than a university student/employee confiscating personal property because it might break a rule.

[Larry Browning]

I don't think you are grasping the point that others have already stated clearly. If you are consuming something from a devices that is commonly used to consume something illegal, you are going to get attention from those whose job it is to investigate such things. They are not going to care if it smells like fresh baked bread, you have drawn their attention, and they will investigate, you should expect it. Nothing you say or do will convince them otherwise. Do you think it would be out of the realm of possibility to disguise the smell of pot? I would think it could be done.
The drinking water out of a beer bottle, sorta reminded me of what I did in my youth, drinking beer out of a coke can. That worked pretty well until the cops walked up and started talking to us. It was not the 1st time he had seen that trick. We thought it was so creative and original too!

[curtis rosche]

a hookah is much different from a bong, it doesnt even look like a bong.
here is a hookah : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...hrough.svg.png

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=hooka...1t:429,r:1,s:0

here is a bong:
http://edca.typepad.com/.a/6a011278d...40d3970b-320wi

they really dont even work the same. with on the material is lit on fire. the other is just heated. there is a huge difference between the two

[Derek Gilmer]

a hookah is much different from a bong, it doesnt even look like a bong.
here is a hookah : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...hrough.svg.png

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=hooka...1t:429,r:1,s:0

here is a bong:
http://edca.typepad.com/.a/6a011278d...40d3970b-320wi

they really dont even work the same. with on the material is lit on fire. the other is just heated. there is a huge difference between the two

Trust me, you can smoke pot out of a hookah. Lots of folks do it. If you use a hookah in a public place like a college campus chances are you will draw attention as others have mentioned.

That doesn't mean it can be seized by an RA. It does mean a law enforcement officer can investigate it. And maybe confiscate it for investigation and/or detain you while he looks into it. But it has to be handled properly. Not taken cause "it might be wrong" by an fellow student with a fancy job.

[Jeff Nicol]

1st. Smoking is a waste of money and time
2nd. Paraphenalia is anything that can be used for a certain process or operation, but becomes "DRUG" paraphenalia when the illeagal drug residue or product is found in or on the item
3rd. The colleges of today are filled with many who have self serving, self agrandizing inflated ideas of who they are and what they are destined to attain, wrong attitude for sure!
4th. Doing anything that can be taken as an illeagal act is something to not do and stay away from. Riding in the car with a drug dealer can make you guilty by association: Brains before pride! Know right from wrong and live it.
5th. If you could get a good apprenticship or a trade school you will come out ahead than attending most universities, the proof is camping all around our country right now.............What a great waste of many hundreds of millions for the degrees with names like "Oriental studies" "Humanities" "Modern Dance" and you know more that make no sense and have nothing to do with anything in real life.

And finally my oldest daughter has 2 degrees and was a 4.0 student all through High school and college, worked all through and had no debt to pay off in the end, but with a conservation degree minor in biology and a law enforcement degree, she still ended up working at a "KWIK TRIP" convenience store and has worked her way up to a store manager. So all the schooling in the world won't garauntee you a job, pay or benifits, it is the work ethic and hard work put in each day that will get you to the top, not the piece of paper that says you read a lot of books and wrote a bunch of nonsense papers. I have 4 friends that are highly educated "Engineers" of some sort or another, and I am the one they come to to solve the problems, me the uneducated no account bum with no college degree, but common sense goes a long way in the world. Common sense should have told you that smoking some odd looking thing with water in it and hoses coming out of it, would be assumed an "ILLEAGAL" substance "Paraphenalia.

My 2 cents

Jeff

[Phil Thien]

First, let's dispense with the notion that they're only used for tobacco.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hookah

They're clearly also used for smoking all sorts of illicit drugs. Some combinations will be undetectable by odor, especially in an open area.

I'm surprised that you took the thing outside, started smoking it, and didn't expect any sort of reaction.

If I had witnessed such an event, I would either imagine the people smoking the device were either extremely naive, or were attempting to bait the authorities.

Just MHO.

[Steven Lee, NC]

As someone who has no first hand exposure to pot other than what I get from tv and the movies, the hooka looks alot like a bong to me. Should it have been confiscated by the RA, probably not. Should the RA have called the police to make that determination? probably so. Smoking a device like that in public in my opinion is not very bright.

[Mike Cruz]

Curtis, also remember that the difference between a hookah and bong is about the same as the difference between a pistol and a rifle. They just aren't that different...

[Charlie Reals]

I would agree Mike but I think a pistol and revolver would be a better example. Lotta difference the other way. Either way with all the grey areas when it comes to laws on this subject it is better to avoid the problem and smoke it elsewhere. Most of the time out here it's folks pushing an issue to see what happens.

[Mike Cruz]

Hey, Curtis. Look what I saw while driving through a Virginis campus town!111103_001.jpg111103_002.jpg

[curtis rosche]

nice Mike, they later banned them from campus cause they didnt want to deal with it any more. they enacted the ban over thanksgiving break, but did not send out email or notify any one. the only way i found out was when the Ga who is now a friend, decided to quietly let me know before it got taken for good

[Van Huskey]

First, it seems there is a general consensus how to handle to particular case. Just some observations about "drug paraphernalia", it is almost exclusively used as "pile on offense" mainly to add a charge or charges to increase the prosecutions leverage in the plea phase, if it goes to trial it is usually a treated like a lesser included offence and more or less disappears in terms of real impact. I have never seen it used alone without at least residue as an offence that actually gets prosecuted separate from other charges UNLESS it stems from the sale of the items. Small parts baggies and shipping scales (particularly if it will read in grams) can be deemed paraphernalia thus the charge usually won't stand alone. From memory the federal law is 21 USC 863, again from memory doesn't explicitly mention a hookah and the argument is strong without residue it is a traditional tobacco product. The cultural use of hookahs is actually on the come back in the US spurred by the American palette becoming more open to foods from regions where post dinner hookah smoking is common.

On a further note a college campus is often a gray area when it comes to possession of many items, you agree to play by their rules as part of your matriculation.

[Derek Gilmer]

First, it seems there is a general consensus how to handle to particular case. Just some observations about "drug paraphernalia", it is almost exclusively used as "pile on offense" mainly to add a charge or charges to increase the prosecutions leverage in the plea phase, if it goes to trial it is usually a treated like a lesser included offence and more or less disappears in terms of real impact. I have never seen it used alone without at least residue as an offence that actually gets prosecuted separate from other charges UNLESS it stems from the sale of the items. Small parts baggies and shipping scales (particularly if it will read in grams) can be deemed paraphernalia thus the charge usually won't stand alone. From memory the federal law is 21 USC 863, again from memory doesn't explicitly mention a hookah and the argument is strong without residue it is a traditional tobacco product. The cultural use of hookahs is actually on the come back in the US spurred by the American palette becoming more open to foods from regions where post dinner hookah smoking is common.

On a further note a college campus is often a gray area when it comes to possession of many items, you agree to play by their rules as part of your matriculation.

Here is that very thing (items adding to a sentence once you find an illegal substance) from a local store. http://thecabin.net/news/local/2011-...s-store?page=2

Moron was selling illegal K2 and had pot on him. So all the legal items like pipes/bongs instantly became drug paraphernalia that will increase his sentencing.

[David Weaver]

I don't know why you would even worry about this, Curtis. I think when you're older and you look back on this, you'll realize how much of a waste of time all of this was. Especially when there are tons of ways you can smoke tobacco if you'd like, without raising any suspicion.

It's not necessarily about who is right about the little technical details, or thinking that a more-strict than the law policy is wrong or that whoever wrote it doesn't know a hookah from a bong, but more about understanding when you're not going to win and when you're wasting your time - especially when you're in college and effort toward something more productive has a material effect on your options after you graduate.

The resident assistance folks at colleges are universally going to be a pain, and the rules and processes are in their favor. As that sinks in, the best thing you can do is learn how to avoid them.

[Moses Yoder]

Legal or not let me throw in some advice unconnected to the Hookah. As a guy who is 63, started smoking at 15 or 16 and is now trying to quit, QUIT NOW. If I had all the money I burned up smoking, I could outfit one of the premier shops on the planet. Not to mention the health impact. Write off the hookah as a lesson learned (not sure why you were in the quad with it, anyway) and quit smoking now.

I agree with this 100%. At one time I used to smoke cigars, now if I think about sucking in that tar and acid into my lungs I just can't do it. Plus, if you quit smoking now, you will have money to help other people with their emphysema expenses, instead of them having to help you.