So if I botched a saw sharpening...

[Robert Rozaieski]

It looks like your main problem is not maintaining a consistent rake angle. If the face of the file is held at a different angle in each gullet, you will get exactly the problem you are seeing here. However, this is absolutely fixable. Here's what I would do.

First, joint the teeth level. You may have to do this a couple of times, filing the gullets lightly between jointings if the height of the teeth is really off. No big deal, it just takes time. You have plenty of saw plate left.

Next, make a rake angle guide block. This is simply a small block of soft wood with a hole drilled in it for the front of the file to be stuck in. Make the hole a little smaller than the tip of the file. Using a protractor or sliding bevel, draw the desired rake angle on the block, tangent to the hole. Then jam the front of the file in the hole, aligning the face of the file with the rake angle line drawn on the block. The angle should lean toward the heel of the saw. When you file, keep this block level, and you wil maintain a consistent rake angle. This should solve a good part of the problems it looks like you are having.

[Jim Paulson]

"My eye-ware needs to be intensified for me to be able to see what is taking place."

I agree with Jim on the aspect of eye-ware. I swear by the opti-visor that I use for sharpening saws and when doing detailed carving on projects. The opti-visor takes a little getting used to, but it helps me control how much metal I remove.

Great comments BTW and best wishes Zach. Sharpening saws does humble me and taking your time seems to make it go smoother. The whole point is to get the teeth pretty close to being the same height and shape and not sweating the slight differences created from hand filing.

Take care,
Jim

[Zach England]

"My eye-ware needs to be intensified for me to be able to see what is taking place."

I agree with Jim on the aspect of eye-ware. I swear by the opti-visor that I use for sharpening saws and when doing detailed carving on projects. The opti-visor takes a little getting used to, but it helps me control how much metal I remove.

Great comments BTW and best wishes Zach. Sharpening saws does humble me and taking your time seems to make it go smoother. The whole point is to get the teeth pretty close to being the same height and shape and not sweating the slight differences created from hand filing.

Take care,
Jim

Therein lies part of the challenge. I am actually visually impaired and have to work partly by feel. I do have a huge assemblage of various magnifiers that I am using, and am looking for a better one. My vision is very unique and is hard to explain, so I won't bore you with the details. However, I am yet to meet a visual challenge in woodworking I have not been able to overcome with the right aids and method. When my vision gets in the way of doing something I get more and more determined to do it and to do it well.

I got so frustrated last night that I just had to put it down for a while. I have done some reading an am going to re-visit it this evening with the rake alignment jig. I think that will alleviate much of my problem.

I am still curious about the older saw filing guides that a few have mentioned, but the new offerings on the market don't look very impressive.

Can anyone comment on my file size in the picture?

Thanks for the help.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Can anyone comment on my file size in the picture?

Hard to tell from the photo, but it looks a little large for the teeth in question - I'm mostly judging by the wear marks on the file - it looks like you've got quite a large area in the center that's no getting used - I try and size my files so that the file is just large enough that I can use all three corners; the file is just a hair taller than the gullets.

I've usually just defaulted to using any of the file to tooth size tables available - I think I've been going by this one from VintageSaws.com

File Type    		PPI of Saw
7" Regular Taper        4-5.5
7" Slim Taper		6,7
6" Slim Taper		8
6" XSlim Taper		9,10
6" 2XSlim Taper		11
5" 2XSlim Taper		12-14
4" 2XSlim Taper		15-20

[Chris Vandiver]

Zach,

Here is a site with some very good info on saw sharpening; http://home.grics.net/~weir/saw_restoration.html

[Jonathan McCullough]

I am actually visually impaired and have to work partly by feel.

Don't assume that your impairment is tripping you up. I've got good vision but find most of the feedback of saw filing is tactile, and only confirmed by sight. When filing an old saw that's in good condition but just dull, I set the file in the existing gullets and let them tell me the predominant rake (and fleam, if it's a crosscut saw). If you use a file handle that isn't perfectly symmetrical, your fingers and wrist can tell you if you're at the correct (consistent) angle, going from tooth to tooth. I also put my thumb on the end of the file, and that provides more sense of the degree of rake. Eventually you develop a muscle memory. Use layout die or a red sharpie pen to mark out the tops of the jointed teeth. When you go from tooth to tooth, count the number of strokes. This tends to create teeth and gullets of a consistent depth along the tooth edge. If you find that it takes five strokes to fully form a tooth (and the layout die is gone, replaced by a sharp point), do three strokes on the next tooth and only then visually confirm whether you need to put emphasis on the left or the right part of the gullet for the last two (of five) strokes to form a more even tooth. Not every tooth will be perfect, but with practice you'll get consistent results. The resistance of the saw to the file will tell you if the temper is inconsistent in patches (on older saws), and/or if you need to clean out the swarf from your file and re-charge it with chalk. I use chalk to keep the gullets from clogging up. When re-forming teeth after jointing down, using a big file is fine, and even preferable. You'll want to file those in from one side with no fleam. Then set the teeth if necessary and give a final sharpening, with fleam, using the correct sized file. The final sharpening will probably only be two strokes per gullet, maybe three. Thinner saw plates work quicker but have almost as many teeth as a full hand saw.

Use the force, Luke.

[john brenton]

The first saws I sharpened I paid no attention to having the right sized file or using a guide. It came out fine. But from then on every saw I tried to sharpen came out like garbage. I then got the right sized files and made a little guide and now it comes out great every time.

[Jim Matthews]

I would take Bob's advice very seriously.

This past weekend I saw a tool monger (Matt Cianci of Hyperkitten) wade through three saws an hour.
One of three blocks was kept slightly ahead of his progress as a gauge to set the angle of fleam to be cut.

These could easily be chamfered to act also as a rake angle guide, by feel. I'm no fan of the mechanical aides, but I can still see where I'm going.
I grasp the idea that those could really reduce your positioning errors. I just hate the damn things, that's all.

They were small, no more than 2" along the axis of the teeth - 3" across. The short axis had a slot cut into it that set the fleam angle for the file to follow.
If you get the teeth that sharp - you had best get some kevlar carver's mitts.

FYI - MC had blue painter's tape on top for visibility and he has excellent vision.

Jim
-12 diopter, both eyes