Usefulness of Bullnose Rabbet Planes

[Chris Griggs]

So I got some extra cash for my birthday and am thinking about picking up a small plane or two to deal with little cleanup tasks... Final cleaning/fitting of rabbets/tongues, interior chamfers, and other little interior/hard to reach cleanups. The kinds of things I usually do with card scrapers and chisels.

I was originally planning on picking up the 3/8 LV detail rabbet plane since I'm looking for something for pretty small tasks on relatively small projects, but then I started thinking that maybe I should just pick up the full size LV bullnose rabbet instead. After all, I don't need it o fit in grooves or dados, that's what my router plane is for - it just needs to get into corners and interiors, and even the full size bullnose is pretty small (4 3/4" long)

Tom Fidgin reviewed the detail rabbets and loves them... ALF reviewed the bullnose rabbet and while the review was positive she didn't seem like a huge fan in terms of its overall usefulness. However, that was really in reference to using it as a true shoulder plane, which really isn't my intended use. Those are really the only reviews I've read of either. Additionally, the full size bullnose (and bullnose planes in general) is a plane I feel like I don't hear much about and I'm wondering if it just isn't every ones cup of tea, but once again my guess is that most people who want rabbet planes are looking for something for trimming machine cut tenon cheeks and shoulders (e.g. they want a med or large shoulder plane)... again, not my main intended use.

Can anyone comment on the usefulness of either of these two planes (detail rabbet or bullnose rabbet) for the types of tasks I described in the first paragraph. Do you find bullnose planes useful in general, or is there just too little registration for the plane to be useful on many tasks. Once again, my intended use would be more of a small trimming plane, almost like a small rabbet-block-apron plane. Any comments on the detail rabbets, the bullnose rabbet, or bullnose planes in general (e.g. Stanley 90), and what you use them for, would be much appreciated.

[James Taglienti]

I have a british one... Its pretty useful working into corners etc but doesnt do much that a shoulder plane or router plane cant do... One thing i especially like mine for is leveling mitered corners that have a wide, flat sunken field like door casings and some picture frames. I use it like a smoother there and it does have a smoothers radius to the cutter. Using it to tweak rabbets is handy but usually i use a chisel to relief cut the corner i will be working into, so the nose hangs in space at the end of the cut. Its much more accurate that way

[Bill Houghton]

The lack of registration at the front makes for a tool with limited usefulness, in particular not useful in long runs. I do own one (two, actually), and find it useful, but it wouldn't be my first buy. I don't have any experienced with the detail planes you ask about.

[Chris Griggs]

That was kinda what I was thinking - pretty useful for certain particulars, but in the long run possible limited in usefulness depending on how you want to use is. Jury is still out for me on this buy, since I'd be using it for some tasks that would be better suited for a shoulder plane (which don't have since I've never felt a major need for one), but I'd also be using it for a lot of tasks where I specifically want the small footprint a shorter toe. Maybe I'll just stick with the little detail rabbet, might be more suited for the tweeking type work I want to do, and also if I don't find it as useful as I am hoping, its less money spent.

More opinions anyone?

[David Weaver]

Someone gave me a slater infill bullnose a while ago, without an iron. I made an iron for it, cleaned it up, and haven't used it since. I suppose you could get into certain sunken stopped work where it would be useful, but I have not.

If I were buying, it would be a tool that I bought when I got to a project where I needed to have it. Otherwise, it's just another plane to leave on the shelf for a while and find with rust on it somewhere - especially if it's a new plane without patina.

[Zach England]

I have a Stanley 90 that I have used to clean up stopped rabbets. I have another bullnose plane that I have never used and am planning on using the blade to make a wooden shoulder plane.

[Prashun Patel]

I have this plane (actually bought it used on CL from someone claiming it was a shoulder plane).

I agree in general about bullnose planes being suboptimal in most cases (I have a Stanley that I never got working right). However, this plane works very well as a rabbet plane and as a shoulder plane. It won't level a long dado, but it will remove any machining ridges. Also, for dados on shorter things like chair legs, the size is actually more controllable (in my hands) than my other Hock shoulder plane.

This is the kind of plane you should really try first, since it seems like it'd fit only specific users, like me well (read, people with smaller hands who want a joint-tweaking tool.) That being said, check with Lee Valley about their return policy; I believe they can be generous about taking back things that don't fit users as well as they hoped.

Again, don't confuse this plane with 'bullnose planes in general'.

[Chris Griggs]

YES Prashaun - "tweeking tool" is what I'm looking for (actaully, after reading Dereks review of the little victor I've come pretty close to getting it for that reason) I don't have smaller hands - actually I have fairly large hands - no issues palming/using the somewhat large LV LABP inone hand, but a small footprint is what I'm looking for. Yes, I will probably use it shoulder plane type tasks as well, but it's really for all types of tweeking and cleanup. Chamfers in funny places, smoothing/flushing/cleanups in areas that a longer plane would ride over. Prashaun can you please elaborate on the tasks you specifically use yours for?

David, here are some pics of the specific project that has made me really want a little tweeking plane so badly, it's nearing the end and needs to be done before Xmas so I'll probably make a decision pretty quickly here. (for more details see this thread I posted about the project a month or so ago)
IMG00395-20111116-0752.jpg IMG00396-20111116-0753.jpg IMG00397-20111116-0754.jpg
Sorry, this wasn't meant to be a "look what I made" thread, but I think pics will help me explain my intended uses. LV LABP is included for scale and as you can see its bigger than the smallest drawers. As Lots of little drawers and drawer openings. Most the openings are so small the (2.5" high) that any breaking of interior corners really has to be done with a chisel or sandpaper. I actually already went in and did that with a chisel, but I have a couple areas where I need to cleanup the faces of the dividers. This isn't about flat, it's about clean and even my block won't reach some of the those areas if I don't first also plane the other dividers which it's bridging over. Also, there are areas were the dividers meet the sides and where the the vertical dividers meet the horizontal that I really need something small and preferably something rabbetish to get into the isolated area/joints I want to clean. Then, there is thechamfering/edge breaking of all the drawer interiors which, once again can be done with chisels and sandpaper, but I am very often finding myself thinking would be done quicker and more evenly with some kind of little tweeking plane. And finally, there are the rabbet specific takes - basically cleaning up after my skew rabbet. For example the back panel is rabbeted and in the final fitting I will probably need to be doing a little fitting cleaning around the rabbet. This is the one place where a small shoulder plane might be better, but for most of what I want to do even a small shoulder plane is too big. This is one of the reasons I was so excited to try John C's detail palm planes, actaully the little flat one would have worked for a lot of the little tweeking I'm suggesting, but ulimatly it was a bit too small and really a lot of the cleanup I need to do warrents something with open side. So then I though detail rabbet plane was the key, which then got me thinking about the bigger bullnose. Yes I can do most/all of this with chisels, scrapers, sandpaper, but keep thinking there has got to be a quicker easier way more consistant way.

Anyway, once agian, Prashaun nailed it. Tweeking plane is what I need... I even like saying/writing the word "TWEEKING!!!".... Recommendations for tools better suited for tweeking are welcome.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I have one and I prefer to use a sharp chisel for those instances when I think of using the bullnose plane.

[Chris Griggs]

I have one and I prefer to use a sharp chisel for those instances when I think of using the bullnose plane.

Yep, that's kind of what I worry I would end up doing to. Good input Tony, thanks. Prashaun's probably correct, might be the kind of tool that would be best to wait until I have a chance to try before I buy.

[Mark Wyatt]

Chris,

The first time I used a bullnose plane was on a project similair to yours. My Father-in-Law was finishing us a dresser and needed a tool to reach inside the case to fit the drawer runners and dust frames. This included some stopped rabbets. We found that it was often difficult to reach the place that needed planing in a way which would allow us room to move the plane and get a good grip on the plane body. Many bruised knuckles. We ended up using chisels, rasps and files instead. A short chisel with a cranked neck turned out to be the most useful tool.

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks for the input Mark. Very useful info. Always great to get info on how tools work for specific tasks and projects. Glad I asked before ordering. Given me much to think about.

[Jim Koepke]

I have a Stanley #90 bull nose plane and find it useful when it can be set down on the surface as opposed to trying to register with the bull nose toe.

It gets less use than my Stanley #93.

Mostly it is used to clean up details of rabbets. Sometimes it is used like a block plane for breaking corners.

Sometimes though it is the best tool for the job.

Most of the time I have been tweaking tenons and shoulders with a chisel.

I do not own nor have I used the detail planes.

jtk

[Jim Neeley]

While I'm still fairly new to neanderworking, I have the LV Bullnose, Lg Shoulder, minature shoulder, LABP and LN 140 in my stable of planes. Of the group, I have to date found the Bullnose the least usefull *for me*.

For chisel plane type use in tight quarters it because I have been so far unable to master using it without any front registration as it likes to dig into my work. I do not challenge that this is an "operator error" issue. With the front end on it it still does not provide me sufficient front registration for straight, even cuts. Ironically it does not have a whole lot less registration than the LV miniature shoulder plane. The LV miniature, while perhaps seen by many as a trinket, with it's A2 steel blade scary-sharpened through 2500 grit sandpaper, makes shallow cuts like a champ. I purchased my first one as a desk ornament for work (sharpened and resting on a scrap of padauk, ready for visitor testing), I was pleased to see it actually usable and usefull and picked up a second one for my shop. I own the 140 but the miniature's light weight, blade reaching to the edge of the plane and short length (2-1/2" long) has made it handy for chamfering right into a corner.

Last night I received John C's detail palm planes in the mail and hope by the weekend to have given them a test for this kind of use.

My observations; YMMV.

Jim

[Chris Griggs]

While I'm still fairly new to neanderworking, I have the LV Bullnose, Lg Shoulder, minature shoulder, LABP and LN 140 in my stable of planes. Of the group, I have to date found the Bullnose the least usefull *for me*.

Hmmm, that's seems to be the more common response. "Nice tool, but not that useful." That's unfortunate, in many ways it comes across like such a potentially handy tool. I really thought it could prove nice as sorta rabbeting-apron plane. Maybe that's why there are so many old infills of this type out there in good shape ( I count 3 on The Best Things), all the old timers bought nice ones thinking they would be super handy and then never used them. When google searching I do see some random threads on other forums with a few folks who really seem to like a bullnose, but most of what I see is along the lines of "meh, great at no things, pretty good at a couple things, and highly mediocre at a whole bunch of things." It's obviously not a good fit for a number of folks, and thus I am starting doubt it's a good fit for me. Guess it's time to go back to my project, and reevaluate my needs, and then decide what (if anything) to get.

Also, Jim looking forward to hearing your (and others) opinions of the detail planes. It's really fun to see what different people who do different types of work think of them. What do you foresee you would use them for?