Which is better a 20" planer with spiral heads or 20" with flat AND a 26" drum sander

[Bob Feeser]

Amazon made me an offer I couldn't refuse pertaining to keeping the 15" planer. I woke up in the wee hours this morning when it was dark out, and have a deep craving for a nap so that is what I am going to do, and then I will come back when I get a moment and repost the deal. It's a doozie of a situation, something you can't cover in a few sentences. The bottom line is with all of the obstacles in the way of the 20" model switch, even though it was already at the local shipping storage facility it didn't make sense to do it. In the words of Mr Spock. Fascinating! I'll give you a hint. Ever try carrying a 952 pound planer down the basement steps by yourself? The free "enhanced delivery to my basement floor ended with the 15. Ouch.

[Bob Feeser]

If you want to know what drove my decision to keep the 15 here is the sequence of events. Ok so as earlier stated I plugged the 15 into the wall, released the safety/stop button pressed in the green on button and only got a rrrrgghhhh, or hummmm out of the planer with no movement. I tried it 3 times and each time I hit the stop button, and then released it, and then hit the green button. In the back of my head I really wanted the 20" instead, and I am familiar with Amazon's defective or damaged merchandise policy because I have bought so many items from them. They give you a choice of either sending you parts and provide you with a discount to cover your labor, or they pick the defective one up and ship you a new machine. So since i wanted the 20" I opted for that instead. No problem, they issued me a return sticker, and placed the order for the 20". This way they could drop off the 20 while picking up the 15.

The 15 came with enhanced shipping which included them taking it down the stairs and placing it on the floor in the basement. It wasn't an official decree they made, I just picked it up as something that has happened because it was mentioned in the reviews. So when I phoned about it they said we will issue the enhanced status but it was up to the carrier. Well the carrier simply subbed it out to another service who was hungry for the job so they did it. So down the steps it went, almost faster than we hoped. It was a close one when it started to skip a few steps, but the guy underneath caught it.

Ok so now the plot thickens. I am mechanically inclined like most of the membership here at SMC so I woke up in the morning and realized I better get a video of this thing making the noise before I send it back to prove what I was talking about. Meanwhile the night before I got curious as to whether the heads themselves could be jammed on something causing the problem. They have an easy access panel on the side so you can adjust the belts; two knobs un-twist and there they are. So I moved the belts and they moved freely thereby moving the motor and heads. So in the morning when I awoke with this video idea, I went down there, pulled the plastic cover off of it and plugged it in, and with the video running I hit the on button and presto, the thing ran normally. I hit stop, and then go three times and each time it started normally. Oh my God, now I have a problem. The other machine was already coming. So I took some counsel from someone close to me and they tried to make me feel good by telling me to not worry about it, they probably won't even check the machine.

When I went to bed that night I didn't feel right about it. Upon arising I knew I had to call Amazon and tell them exactly what happened. I don't know why it worked after that? Was it because there could possibly be a bad spot on the armature and I moved it off of that spot so now it worked? How would I prove it now that I moved it? How could I find that one specific spot again? So I called Amazon and explained it to them, and wanted them to know the truth, and asked for their advice. They took note of it and mentioned the new one was on the way, so I felt like look I did the honest thing and it is out of my hands now. If I had to eat it I would not like it but sometimes you have to accept the things you cannot change.

So I called the carrier to see what the tie up was because they had it in the local warehouse already. They told me to get the old one out of the basement, and hoist the new one down the steps they would need special approval from Amazon for the charges. They wouldn't tell me how much the charges were, but only that it would be expensive because the task required specialty equipment and trained personnel. So Amazon got in touch with me via email and told me that the new one would not be placed on my basement floor and would only be delivered to my garage and that is it. It was up to me to take it down the steps and place it in the basement. All 952 pounds worth. They also encouraged me to keep the 15.

I really wanted the 20 so they said, "We will call the carrier who dropped it off and if they will pick it up for the standard charge then we will ok that, but the 952 pound 20" would be up to me to get it in the basement and they would only deliver it to my garage. So at first I was stubborn and said, "Ok call the carrier and see if they will do it". Whenever I am in doubt I go in and lay down, and center myself, and then seek wisdom. The thoughts that came to my head were that the $200 eight gauge wire I would have to run, the mods to the dust collection system to accomodate the 5" hose, and the special run into the neighboring state to pick up the 8 gauge extension cord wire like I did for my PM66 5hp, and most especially how am I going to get a 952 pound planer down the steps? It dawned on me, it's time to keep the 15.

I also realized that if this problem showed up again in the future, Shop Fox provides a 2 year warranty, and I could fix or replace whatever part made it happen in the first place. I also realized that Amazon when faced with a possibly defective/part replacement situation, they will upon approval provide a small discount for the inconvenience. So I asked Amazon and she went to her supervisor who was more than willing at this point to do something rather than face the basement haul, and they acquiesced and gave me a small discount. Upon that I said, "I'm keeping the 15". They also mentioned in the email when they told me the movement of the 20" into the basement was on me, that reversing the shipment on the 20" would still provide me with a full refund for that one.

You have to understand, I have bought over 300 items from Amazon, and out of all of that I have only had a couple of claims and they were for transportation damage. One or two went back, and the other they sent me the broken parts. Once I opened my mind to the 15 instead of the 20 I realized that I never plane boards that are over 13" anyhow, and what I really needed was a 26" sander to do the things I was hoping the 20" planer would do. So with the price tag/normal selling price of $1199 I would be closer to saving up the money to buy the $2020 sander, than I would be with the $1853 I would have to spend for the 20" planer. So I am planning on using the 15 and working toward the 26" sander instead.

I will tell you this, actually two things. One is I buy all of my woodworking equipment from Amazon because of their outstanding customer service, and I absolutely love the Shop Fox 15" planer. I may even take a video of this and place it on You Tube so I can post it here and show you how quiet this thing is. Next to my old Craftsman planer if I had both of them running at the same time, you wouldn't even realize the Shop Fox was turned on. Every time I look at that planer I am going to be happy knowing I did the right thing, and what a sweetheart piece of equipment it is. And then I am going to dream about the day that I have both that planer and the 26" sander sitting side by side ready to take on whatever I dish out to them.

[Steven Wayne]

So, there was nothing wrong with the planer?

[Bob Feeser]

So, there was nothing wrong with the planer?

I take it you don't want to bother to read my above rather lengthy explanation, but therein lies the answer. Thanks for asking though.

[Steven Wayne]

Bob, I wasn't being rude. I read your post above. My question was sincere. The two posts on your planer are hard to follow. It sounds like there was nothing wrong with the planer, which is what I asked. Sorry to offend.

[Jim Foster]

Have you considered the Powermatic dual drum sander. It's more money, but after having single drum sander, I'd love to step up to a dual drum if I could justify the effort of selling mine and getting it installed in my 2nd floor shop. If I did not have a drum sander and knew what I know now, I'd get the dual drum without pause.

[Bob Feeser]

Bob, I wasn't being rude. I read your post above. My question was sincere. The two posts on your planer are hard to follow. It sounds like there was nothing wrong with the planer, which is what I asked. Sorry to offend.

I am the one who should apologize to you. Sorry for the short answer. This has been a frustrating experience, and maybe I was running a little low on octane. :-) Thank you for your kind response.

[Bob Feeser]

Jim,
Thanks for your reply. I love Powermatic equipment, I have a PM66 5hp table saw, their stand hollow chisel mortiser, and their 60B 8" jointer. They are the hallmarks of my shop. I did look at PM when I was deciding on a planer, and the PM's in the planers were loaded with well less than 5 star reviews, and the Shop Fox was seven 5 star reviews, and only two 4 star reviews, and they were from those who didn't want to go through the bother of setting up the machine.

So that thinking is now bleeding over to the dual drum sander however the PM dual drum sander has several good reviews, and no other bad reviews so obviously there are a lot of people in complete agreement with you.
So now onto the dollars and cents of it. I love PM gold in my shop. However I am blown away with the quailty of the Shop Fox 15" planer which is the number one seller in Amazon once you get over the hobby machines below it.

So here is the deal. Both machines are dual drum sanders. PM is over 4 grand, and Shop Fox is $2020 at the moment. Here are the links here; http://www.amazon.com/SHOP-W1678-26-...1722903&sr=1-1 and
http://www.wayfair.com/Powermatic-25...-WMI1013#specs Ok so the PM is 840 pounds and the shop Fox is 540 so the PM does appear to be a heavier duty machine. My shop is in the basement so moving 540 is not exactly a feather weight. :-)

But yes the dual drum sander seems to be the way to go, and I am dreaming of saving up my pennies towards one as soon as possible. It seems to solve the problems that planers have with snipe and tear out. So the question is do you get any chatter or anything else that results in a less than smooth surface from the dual drum sander?

[David Kumm]

Look at used Performax- now supermax as well. Made here and a top of the line machine. They aren't very complicated machines so if the motors are good, used is a good value. They come with a pretty good Leeson motor. Dave

[Aleks Hunter]

I have a similar setup but a grizzly 20" straight knife planer and the same shop fox 26" double drum sander.

Get the double drum sander! Set it up right and you get two passes for the effort of one.


I'll agree, size matters. But it does lead down a slippery slope. I finally broke down and bought a bigger jointer, a 24" for wide boards, and guess what, that 20" planer is looking like it wants to be swapped out for a 24".

Seriously though the 20" has considerably more power, and 5hp will do a better job in the long run than 3 hp. But whatever rotating chisel gizmo you use, you will generally need to sand. Machine jointed edges look machine jointed. Put a nice finish without sanding or at least scraping and it looks mire machine cut.

[Jim Foster]

I did not realize the Shop Fox was a dual drum. Looks like a great way to go.

[Bob Feeser]

I have a similar setup but a grizzly 20" straight knife planer and the same shop fox 26" double drum sander.

Get the double drum sander! Set it up right and you get two passes for the effort of one.


I'll agree, size matters. But it does lead down a slippery slope. I finally broke down and bought a bigger jointer, a 24" for wide boards, and guess what, that 20" planer is looking like it wants to be swapped out for a 24".

Seriously though the 20" has considerably more power, and 5hp will do a better job in the long run than 3 hp. But whatever rotating chisel gizmo you use, you will generally need to sand. Machine jointed edges look machine jointed. Put a nice finish without sanding or at least scraping and it looks mire machine cut.

Aleks,
Thanks for the information. I was wondering what kind of finish does the Shop Fox dual drum sander leave. I heard of some drum sanders leaving chatter marks in the wood which would defeat the advantage of the unit. Is that the case maybe in just the one side open ended units. I see the Shop Fox drums are attached on both sides to pedestals so to speak so the accuracy increases. So please let me know exactly what to expect in terms of evenness of the finish on the SF dual drum. What does it take after that to produce a perfect finely sanded product?

[glenn bradley]

A little late but, interesting reading: http://www.finewoodworking.com/ToolG....aspx?id=34431

[Aleks Hunter]

Hi Bob. The SF sander leaves a very nice finish. The drums themselves are fairly heavy aluminum, with the hook and loop glued on them. The pillow blocks are very solid, there is a bit of give between the Hook and loop backing and the rubber conveyor that moves the stock, which helps to avoid the chatter marks you mentioned. They are common in drums that are not hook and loop but smooth aluminum, with no give to them. Like any machine there may be some fine tuning you will have to do.

I may have been lucky, but the drums were dead on within .001" of where they were supposed to be on each end vs. one another and the platen. you will need a rotocator to measure this, It is crucial that the drums are parallel to the platen, and that the rear drum is no more than .010 lower than the front drum. Mine came from the factory at .008 and I have left them there with good results.

Another thing is to avoid lousy sandpaper. I've been using Klingspor and been very happy with 100 in front and 150 in the back. Different woods will require different feed rates and a differing movement increment between passes. Its trial and error at first, but you will get the hang of it.

Also invest in a big prostick pad to clean the drums. It more than pays for itself.

And most important for your health, have a big dust collector and short run to it. It does make a LOT of dust.

[Mike Cruz]

Bob, I think it all depends on what you make. If you tend to make a lot of face frames for cabinets, I say get the two machines. If you do a lot of boards, save the $1000 and get the Byrd head. We had a sander at my old job and it had it's purposes, but honestly, we used the planer WAY more and it would have saved a LOT of wood and a LOT of hassle if we had had a Byrd head on that planer. Of course, I had never even heard of the Byrd heads then, so what did I know. But in retospect, that Byrd head would have solved a lot of headaches...