[OP]
Member
I'm working on moving my new felder combination machine into my shop but had a question about tooling for the spindle. There is a 30 mm spindle that comes with the machine and I need to buy some tooling for it. I know 30 mm is not the same as 1 1/4", but do I have to order 1 1/4" cutters and bush them down to 30 mm? Or can I order 30 mm cutters, accessories, etc.? I've only had experience buying 1 1/4", 1", or 3/4" cutters.
Thanks,
Charlie
Member
You can certainly buy 30mm tooling from most major commercial manufacturers. Hammer or Felder sell some pretty good stuff for 30mm as does Schmidt, Garniga, I think freeborn too.You could also buy another spindle size to use any tooling you already have.
Member
I'm not sure they make bushings to go from 30mm to 1-1/4" as the material would be awfully thin???
I think if your just starting out buying tooling I'd probably switch to a 1-1/4" spindle. Reason being is that it's more common than 30mm over here. So finding good deals on used cutters and heads is more likely with 1-1/4".
Of course you can also just buy 30mm tooling as Peter suggested.
I'm not a fan of having a spindle where you need to use bushings on all your cutters. I do use them occasionally on my smaller shaper, I just wouldn't want to do it for everything.
good luck,
JeffD
Member
I agree with just changing to 1 1/4 spindle but Amana does make 30 to 1 1/4 and 3/4 "t" bushings.
Don
Guest
I would ask over on the Felder Owners Group at yahoo.
The hammer machine I have came with a 1" spindle, and felder sold me a set of 1" to 30mm bushings (the machine also came with a 1" to 1.25" set of bushings). The difference between 1" and 30mm is only 0.18" and have had no problems yet (knock wood) so 30mm to 1.25" should be fine. Obviously you have to be super careful about making sure you get everything locked down good with the bushings - I've never done it (again yet) but have heard horror stories about people friction welding the cutters to the spindle which seems like it would be more probable with bushings, so I'm been overly paranoid with that setup.
[OP]
Member
Jeff, I guess I'm not so much looking for used cutters but a reputable manufacturer that will be around to sell more cutters in the future. I've used amana tooling and think its fine. The only insert cutters I've used (aside from moulding heads with corregated knives for large shapers) is what I thought was a flimsy aluminum cutter block from CMT. Maybe they've improved the quality of these items?
I wasn't thrilled with the idea of a 1 1/4" to 30 mm bushing but was just throwing the idea out there.
I will look into a 1 1/4" spindle for the machine but will continue to look for 30 mm cutters.
Contributor
Charles, the issue won't be whether you'll be able to obtain 30mm tooling in the future, it may be whether you can obtain 1 1/4" tooling.
Remember that North America is a small market compared to the world market, and that the imperial system isn't common at all.
Go ahead and buy as much 30mm tooling as you want, the 30 and 40mm sizes are the way of the future..............Rod.
[OP]
Member
Rod, I was hoping you would chime in. I'm a metric fan myself but can't convince my American colleagues of its virtues. I know you have mentioned FS Tooling in the past because of it being local to you but, unfortunately, I don't make it back home to southern Ontario enough to visit them. Do you know of any online dealers or someone who sells their tooling south of the border? Also, do you use the insert tooling that is specifically made for cabinet door fabrication (cope and stick) or do you use a cutterhead that will accept all manner of insert tooling (rabbeting, grooving, edge profiles, etc.)?Originally Posted by Rod Sheridan
Ryan, the idea of putting a 1 1/4" shaper cutter on a 30 mm spindle scares me beyond description. I have heard enough horror stories about shapers and have enough respect for them that I do not wish to tempt fate.
Member
In the U.S., I have one word for you. CMT -- their European catalogue. All items warehoused here in Indiana or Ohio (??). Metric items by special order from authorized dealers.
Contributor
Greg Godbout at Rangate sells euro insert tooling as well. High end stuff. I know the Felder guys have favorites other than Garninga also. Check on FOG. I would buy a 1.25 spindle anyway as the combo machines are generally sold to hobby guys and if you resell you will want to have one as they are likely to factor it into the price anyway. After about 10 years it is hard to find them even at Felders high parts prices. Dave
Member
When I was a child the government was running public service adds getting us ready for the big switch to the metric system that was coming to the USA. I can still remember the jingles "A liter, chorus 'LITER', its a little more than a quart, a meter, 'chorus 'METER' its a little more than a yard'......And we learned the basics of the metric system in grade school, and we used the metric system almost exclusively in chemistry, physics, biology, in any science classes in college. And most of our groceries are actually sold to us in metric form, as is the liquor. And....
Over 40 years later most things in our daily lives here in the USA are still SAE. We aren't going to have those pseudo intellectual quasi sophisticated arrogant Euro snobs forcing their virtually random system of weights and measure on us over our completely random but beloved English system, which we inherited from a country against which we revolted several hundred years ago! Ohhh no. Maybe the US market isn't what it used to be, but we still have money, and unlike like Europe we still have wood actually worth working, so if you want to sell cutter heads here you had better keep making 1 1/4" bore, because some traditions are important. Why do you suppose every major tooling maker sells their cutters in 1 1/4" bore, and why does every tooling manufacturer make 1 1/4" spindles for their machines? I have to stop now as my tongue has poked through my cheek...
Seriously, I predict most of us here at the creek will be dead before they get rid of 1 1/4" bore as a standard in the USA. Just too many machines in use presently to dump it over night. It sure would be nice if they started really phasing out the SAE stuff so my grandchildren could be unburdened by the dreary fractional system, but don't hold your breath on that one. This is a nation that clings stubbornly to its traditions and habits.
Guest
Felder usually has a tooling sale during the Christmas season. It's 30mm. Also, I would pick up a 1.25 inch spindle.
Contributor
Charles, look up FS Tools on the web, they have US distributors.
I mostly use the insert knives, 40mm Euro block cutters.
Look at the Felder site, they have great Chridtmas sales on now, especially the 30mm stuff.
Garniga is another supplier, carried by many distributors.
We really are at the end of the rope on the Imperial system, there's far more tooling in the metric sizes.............Rod.
[OP]
Member
Gary, I used an aluminum CMT insert cutterhead five or so years ago and wasn't too impressed with the quality. Am I just being unrealistic? I haven't used the super high end stuff but still feel like there should be some feeling of quality like I get when using products from Schmidt or Freeborn.
David, I was trying to steer away the top of the line cutters (Garninga, etc.) but will look into it. I thought Freeborn cutters would be at the top of my price list but will look at the big boy / industrial cutters for fun.
Peter, (just to throw a little gasoline on your fire) outside of the USA the rest of the world spells it litre.
And I will look into the 1.25" spindle. Keep the suggestions rolling.
Contributor
Charles, I'm mainly a freeborn guy myself as you can interchange the cutters. I have bought most used as they often come from hobbyists. My only complaint is that I wish they worked off a little larger diameter than 4". If you use an aigner fence it barely clears the fat spindle rings Felder uses. Dave
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