Hand Saw handle repair

[Mike Holbrook]

So my first auction saw is in my shop for repairs, H. M. Meier, 26 3/8, 6 point, CC. The handle is nice and in good shape except for a thin crack. The blade was rusted badly over most all it's surface. Took the handle off and started cleaning the blade. Over half the finish was off the handle so I have sanded off most of the remainder. The handle crack has me a little baffled. I have read articles and posts on repairing such cracks but this one is a little more complicated. The crack is not all the way through the handle and the handle feels fairly solid even with the crack. Rather than trying to describe it I uploaded a picture of each side to Flicker:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16891057@N05/?saved=1

I was using the wedge the handle is on to try & spread the crack a little so I could get glue in it. The crack does not seem to want to open up and I am not sure it is a good idea to use more force? I was thinking about watering down some glue to get it into the crack or just soaking WATCO "Teak Oil" finish into it. The Teak Oil is a thinner version of regular WATCO which one of the "old timers" at Highland Woodworking suggested might be better about soaking into hard woods, like the purpleheart I have been making planes with. WATCO claims to soak into wood & harden as opposed to just sitting on the surface.

If the handle was in pieces, like the one in the post below or had a larger crack that could be spread apart I would have a good idea what to do. I tapped it down the wedge fairly firmly with a dead blow hammer and tried to sprad it by hand but could not get any significant change in the cracks width. Any other ideas? If not I am thinking about soaking the WATCO into it and leaving it alone unless it gets worse.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?171446-Rehab-of-a-D-23-handle&highlight=glue+for+cracks

[David Weaver]

If the crack doesn't go through to the back side, i personally wouldn't do anything with it. Like you mentioned, you could drop some glue into it, but if the handle ever gets oiled (and it probably should be) and if it moves more, it'll probably just separate from the glue. I don't think that handle could probably get any drier, unless you send it somewhere that's really really dry.

I have a couple of saws like that, and I haven't touched the cracks. In use, they haven't changed, either. I wouldn't hammer or wedge that crack to get it to open, it looks like a crack from drying, and you may create a bigger problem.

CA glue would go down in that easily, but if you get it somehwere on the outside of the saw handle, it will penetrate fast and leave an ugly spot.

You can always use it, and if it gets worse, do something about it later. Just make sure you use an oil (teak, like you said, is fine) that dries if and when you oil it, so that the crack joint at a later date isn't a wet oily mess if you want to glue it.

[Mike Holbrook]

Our thoughts are pretty much the same David. I don't think enough air or water has been in that crack to make the wood in it significantly different than the other wood internally. At least sanding and lightly pressing it does not seem to reveal a difference. Yes the wood is very dry. I think soaking WATCO into it will cause a little swelling possibly reducing the crack. WATCO, particularly the Teak Oil version, is suppose to soak into the wood and harden it inside and not sit on the surface. This should be a good test for how well it does just that.

So now all I have to worry about is how much more to do to the blade. I was surprised how much has come off it so far. There is still major discoloration in spots and a little roughness in the surface. There is a picture at the link above.

Thanks for the input!

[David Weaver]

I also would be done with the blade where you have it. It'll tell you in the cut if more work needs to be done. If you wax it and after a few cuts, it doesn't do anything in the cut (and that clean, it won't) and it doesn't leave gunk on the side of the cut, you are in good shape.

It would take an incredible amount of work to sand off the discoloration and then you'd have to run up through the grits to get the polish back to where it is at this point. I've never done it. It should be an excellent saw as it is, and cut smoothly.

I haven't used the watco brand teak oil, but have used the behlen a lot on tools where a thinner oil is nice. It works well. I don't think that crack will swell shut, but that's no big deal. Every very old saw or plane that I've come across has been absolutely bone dry like you've found, the dust comes off like it was stored in a desert. If it was at all wet, it probably wouldn't survive well, like some of the mealy beech handles you can find on old saws - I guess that's rot - it looks like someone chewed the top layer off of them.

[Mike Holbrook]

Cool, I will put the WATCO on the handle and after it dries put it all back together and give her a run at some wood. Probably should do a little work on the teeth but I don't have my files & tooth set from Mike Wenzloff yet. May try to clean the teeth a little better with a nylon brush and saw some scrap construction grade lumber. I am guessing sawing a little wood will brush those teeth up too.

I will post some pictures when I get her operational.

[David Weaver]

If it has a good bit of fleam, it'll work well even with the teeth a bit dull. Best way to keep the teeth clean, that I can think of, is to use the saw. It is a bear to clean teeth that have a lot of set on them - but if there is a lot of set, little of that dirtiness around the tooth line will touch wood ever, anyway, and it'll be completely gone in a couple of sharpenings. Less is more around there, I'd think - don't want to take much off the outside of the tooth cleaning. Same as the plate, once you get the saw sharp, it'll tell you a lot when you use it.

It's always nice to clean up a hardware store brand quality old saw. Since you don't get rung up on price like you would on a disston, it almost feels like you're getting something for nothing. Most of my saws have discoloration of some sort on them, the saws that don't go for a mint. I always wish I could get more of the discoloration off the saw when I'm cleaning one, but as soon as you get the saw in a long cut, and stay right on a line, and get your heart rate up, you never think about the discoloration again.

[Jim Paulson]

Best wishes Mike on your hand saw refurbishing. The one thing that I often do when preserving old wooden planes and saws, after fixing some cracks, is to treat the wood to a generous amount of BLO. Once that is sufficiently dry I'll opt to seal the wood surface with shellac or polyurethane, if needed.I agree with David about treating cracks, sometimes it is better to leave well enough alone. If I can spring a crackto work in glue, I'll do it.Take care,Jim

[Mike Holbrook]

Here is a link to the two saws so far. The crack is visible and may still require fixing at some point. The WATCO Teak Oil works kinda like BLO. I was surprised with how dark the wood got. I did soak it in well though which may have darkened it.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16891057@N05/

[Mike Holbrook]

Now I have two more saws with one or more "hair line" cracks in their handles. The ones in the original saw I posted about seem to have extended too.

I was wondering if anyone had tried drilling a small hole into one of these kinds of cracks, to provide a place to inject glue? Maybe a little pressure on the glue would cause it to seep into the crack? I was thinking a small drill hole could be easily filled with minimal negative effect on the handles appearance.

[Jim Paulson]

Mike,

I think that I'd leave it alone. If I really wanted to use glue, I'd use hotstuff to help stabilize it.

Food for thought,
Jim

[Bob Smalser]

Wedging the crack open can enlarge it, drilling holes is unsightly, and the thin cyano glues are terrific to repair chips but are a bit brittle for the rougher service totes and saw handles receive.

One of the best ways to fix a crack is to spatula on some unthickened marine epoxy and gently apply a heat gun or lamp. The heat thins the epoxy to the consistency of water to seep all the way to the bottom of the crack.

[Mike Holbrook]

Great tip Bob. I would have been afraid that the heat would have just made the glue harden faster. I will try my hand at that with some sort of test piece, after I Google marine epoxy and figure out if it is different than what I have. I have handles with long cracks across parts of the handle that are hard to wedge open. Plus as several others have mentioned I am not wild about making cracks worse.

I have one handle where the carriage type bolt heads have apparently torn out a fair amount of wood, probably from over tightening with one of those electron eating drill/screw drivers. Any ideas about fillers for stripped head seats? Appearance should not be an issue since these areas will wind up under screw/bolt heads. Are newer saw bolts from companies like Wenzloff better at holding without tearing or splitting the wood?

[Noel Liogier]

I saw this thread on saw-handle and wish to take this opportunity to ask a question (Mike, please excuse me for being off the topic) :

I am trying to develop a rasp especially adapted to the needs of saw handle makers. At this stage, I'm wondering about the dimensions of it and so I opened a blog to gather some opinions. The blog is here

Sorry again if this is of no interest for you guys.

[Paul Saffold]

Noel, take a look at this from Tools for Working wood.

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com//...egory_Code=TRR

[Bob Smalser]

I have one handle where the carriage type bolt heads have apparently torn out a fair amount of wood, probably from over tightening with one of those electron eating drill/screw drivers. Any ideas about fillers for stripped head seats? Appearance should not be an issue since these areas will wind up under screw/bolt heads.

Simply thicken the epoxy using a high-strength filler like cabosil and dye it to match the wood. Stick with one brand. West Marine makes one of the oldest and one of the best.

Use paste wax as a release agent and you can cast hardware in place for repairs or simply a perfect fit. If the hardware sticks, heat from a soldering iron will release it.