Hand Saw handle repair

[Mike Holbrook]

Noel, Paul pointed you in the correct direction. For some reason the Gramercy Tools Handle Maker's Rasp has been out of stock for quite a while. I think it has been a couple months at least, as I was waiting for them to show as in stock. Would be nice to have another source for these.

Bob, thanks for the additional edification.
I found the West Marine epoxy yesterday. I actually had some for canoe repair but think I am out of stock. As I recall they offer fillers & dies to add to it too. I use to have a West catalog somewhere, but I will find the current info. on line.

Here is a link to the two handles I am working on now:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16891057@N05/

[Jim Paulson]

One of the best ways to fix a crack is to spatula on some unthickened marine epoxy and gently apply a heat gun or lamp. The heat thins the epoxy to the consistency of water to seep all the way to the bottom of the crack.

Thanks for this thread and for talking about using heated epoxy. Since I am not familar with West Marine products, I'm guessing that we aren't talking about a 5 minute epoxy but one that has longer set time.

As I don't use epoxy that much and don't repair cracked saw handles very often, my preference is purchase a product in a small quantity. I looked at the West Marine website and I would appreciate some suggestions for which product(s) would be ideal in fixing cracks. I don't think I'd be using epoxy to fill gaps though.

Jim

[Mike Holbrook]

Paul, I think West does make epoxy to fill voids. I was doing repairs to holes and cracks in a fiberglass canoe and used their epoxy & various fillers & cloths to fix some fairly major damage. I have a cousin who has a business doing repair to boats on the coast of South Carolina and he swears by their products. I know I bought a kit at one time that came with smaller packages of their product for smaller jobs. If someone who does not know more about using these products does not step up I will give my cousin a call and find out more. Check West's kits. The kit I bought had small brushes, spatulas..different substances to add to epoxy...I believe their products are freguently used to repair much larger damage to wooden boats than what we are talking about.

[Bob Smalser]

1) I'm guessing that we aren't talking about a 5 minute epoxy but one that has longer set time.

2) As I don't use epoxy that much and don't repair cracked saw handles very often, my preference is purchase a product in a small quantity.

1) That's right. Leave the glues found in supermarkets to Harry Homeowner.

2) West makes 1oz, foil repair packets of their basic 101 resin and 205 hardener. You can buy them in packs of six.



http://www.westsystem.com/ss/105-system-kits

West also makes different hardeners to control open time in hot or cold weather. They make dyes and two basic thickeners...a weak microballoon fairing compound that's easy to sand and full-strength cabosil that is strong but not easy to sand. Read the instructions when gluing. Both have their uses in the shop...especially to fill gaps...and a second coat of cabosil-thickened epoxy is important in glueups that receive clamping pressure.

For cracks, another tip is to warm the wood so it is warmer than the air in your shop. Then the temperature gradient will cause the epoxy to be sucked into the crack after lightly heating...without bubbles forming. Bubbles rising to the surface of a glueup generally aren't offgassing of the wood, but caused by the wood being colder then the air. Warm it so it isn't.

Last, excess epoxy cleans off of hands, clothes, tools and wood using white vinegar and a disposable shop towel.

In this day and age, it's kind of absurd to tackle wood repairs without basic epoxy skills. There are no other sound alternatives for so many applications. Cyanos don't fill gaps well and are too brittle to take any structural stress. And nothing useful will stick to Titebond...including epoxy...making Titebond-contaminated cracks impossible to repair further without letting in new wood. It also interferes with staining and has all the sanding qualities of Tupperware. How this junk glue got to be so popular escapes me entirely.

Before:



After:

[Mike Holbrook]

What he said!

I think that is the exact kit I bought and used up before, great product. I think I bought a couple extra fillers too. I wonder if anyone has ever abraded/cut away an area and added cloth to hold enough epoxy to make a major repair? I know it works on boats. I guess the problem is matching the look of the wood in the surface area covering the cloth. Probably when the problem gets that serious it is easier to start with a fresh piece of wood & just make a new handle though. Soon as I get to it I will have to place another order with West. I have to check my boat hulls first though.

[Jim Paulson]

Bob, thanks for the information. You provided very helpful advice and I plan to get some of that product. Also, you did an awesome repair on the gun stock.

I confess that I understated my use of epoxy as I've benefitted from using it many times. But, what I've used has been the 5 minute set up time variety and not to stabilize/repair cracks. So it will be great to use the West Marine product when the situation warrants it.

Jim

[Bob Smalser]

The 5-minute epoxies won't heat without setting up. And there's not enough time to dye and thicken them. Further, mix too much and they will "kick off" in the pot, which is also a problem with all epoxies in hot weather.

[John T Barker]

Have you considered making a new handle? Tiger maple perhaps?

John

[David Weaver]

Noel, take a look at this from Tools for Working wood.

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com//...egory_Code=TRR

Yeah, that's pretty much it. Except Joel's is already a good one and sets the bar for form and price, and the price at least is unlikely to be duplicated by a euro rasp (plus it would be rude to copy it outright).

[Jim Koepke]

How this junk glue got to be so popular escapes me entirely.

Inexpensive, mindless application and available everywhere seems to have trumped using the brain and spending a bit more in many aspects of modern life.

jtk

[Mike Holbrook]

I have been wondering about that rasp though David. I believe it has been "out of stock" for 3 months maybe more. I am wondering if that means it is a dead product or not obtainable...Maybe I need to give them a call. I don't think there is anything very unique about it. It looks like a slightly narrower version of a half round rasp with a little curve in the body. I have ben unable to get any sort of input on the Gramercy rasps, other than what the info. at the site says either.

Yes, I am considering making new handles. I have a handle for a saw kit in the mail. I also plan to pick up a board, Bubinga seems to be a favorite. I like hickory for handles too and I imagine it is less expensive. I have handle designs from Mike's web site and just found out from him a day or two ago that at 100% print they should be to scale. I also have a few saw handles now that I can copy. If I just had a better rasp or two for working on handles...

Many thanks to Bob for the lessons in handle repair & appropriate use of epoxy!

[David Weaver]

There are made somewhere east of western europe. I can't remember if it's in eastern europe or india.

Compared to nearly all furniture rasps, the round is a much tighter curve, and the point is shaped more intentionally toward saw handle making than the point that's usually on furniture or musical instrument rasps. The rasps themselves are also bent the opposite direction that a lot of half round rasps are bent.

I haven't seen another rasp like them anywhere, though something may have been found in old shops where a blacksmith or craftspeople would've bent their own rasps.

No clue why they're out of stock, maybe joel will chime in. Even if it takes a month to get another one, I'd buy one if you are going to make saw handles - they are so well designed for it that I don't like using any of my other rasps once the rougest work is done.

[Mike Holbrook]

I went to order one, but I believe they went out of stock that day. I have been waiting for them to show back up in stock for quite a while, checking regularly.