Building painted wainscoting with painted walls. How to get a clean edge???

[Bob Feeser]

I'm remodeling the bedroom and building wainscoting with fluted pilasters on plinths. I will be installing crown moldings on ceilings, and on top of the raised panels there will be a top cap mldg with apron. The walls are cracked in places due to plaster. I am going to fix, prime, and paint those. I come from an automotive background and had a body shop for 20 years, so I am accustomed to removing mldgs, and painting and then reinstalling. BUT in this case the moldings themselves are getting painted as well. (Not stained and cleared)
So I am unfamiliar with how to get the best end result and not have a bunch of jagged edges??? I know blue fine line tape helps, but I would love to do a final install on lets say the top cap mldg of panels after I am done spraying the color on all the rest of the trim. Yes I want to buy Alkyd enamel, and spray all of the trim at one time to get a brush free finish, and since I have two windows on different walls I can get some cross venitilation going with a fan in the window.
So here are some random questions.
1) Can I base coat the trim with a latex paint and then install with a nail gun, and then touch up the nail gun holes with caulk and it won't show. (I am using the base white that all formulas are mixed from with not a drop of color in it so will the caulk match) Or do I touch up the caulk spots?
2) I can carefully "Tent" off the rest of the room while I am spraying, doing the prep, I am accustomed to masking leak free on car interiors for example, it is tedious work but will work.
So the walls are getting painted light blue, and the trim and ceiling are getting painted white. Ceiling paint for the ceiling though, and oil base for the trim.
I think you get the gist of the problem I am facing.
You could boil it down to how do I install the moldings and not have the nail gun holes show on the white paint? I am open to any and all step by step instructions on how to overall acheive the best result.
Any suggestions?
Thanks ahead of time.

[Jim Rimmer]

I would prepaint the molding, install it, use wood filler in the nail holes, sand the area lightly after it drys and then touch it up. I've done this before and it looks fine. Maybe by caulk you meant wood filler??

[Steve Jenkins]

as far as the caulk goes I have found that over time it will yellow slightly. Just enough to show against white paint so we touch up all the caulk with paint. I'd use spackle to fill the nail holes and sand it lightly. You can get it dead flush with the paint and sometimes the caulk isn't.

[Chad Easterling]

I'd fill the nail holes with Fast and Final. That stuff is great. You put it in the hole, wipe it off and you are good to go in no time. Been using it for years. A finish carpenter doing the inside of a sunroom I had added to my previous house told me about the stuff.

[Bob Feeser]

I'd fill the nail holes with Fast and Final. That stuff is great. You put it in the hole, wipe it off and you are good to go in no time. Been using it for years. A finish carpenter doing the inside of a sunroom I had added to my previous house told me about the stuff.

Chad thanks for the tip. So Fast and Final will match the base bright white I am sure. I will get some and give it a try.

I decided I know how to avoid the tape edge challenge. Don't have one. I am going to leave the top cap mldg off of the wainscoting while I spray the panels, and will spray the top cap mldgs across the horses. Then when all is dry, I will install the top cap mldgs freshly cutting the 45's in the corners, and then install the 1/2" deep mldg with my 23 gauge pin nailer, and then try using the Fast and Final to fill the fine pin holes as well as fill the seam in the corners of the 45's on the top cap mldgs.

The one challenge that still exists with trying to avoid any edge at all is in the fluted pilasters, and I decided that I may just try putting a tiny 1/4" in mldg along the outer edges and use the pin nailer routine again. Since the inner pocket of the window well will match the pilaster there will be no edge so that will work great.

There is one final challenge and that is in the header panels. They meet up against the painted wall, and with the crowns and all mating up to them, there is no way to cover any seams with a mldg so I will have to do a surgical job with the fine line tape. I was advised to pull the tape when the paint got dry to the touch but not fully cured, which sounds like good advice to me. I know when paint fully hardens, sometimes you can pull off a chip that bridges the divide, so just dry to the touch it will still know when to let go.

So the Fast and Final will blend into the semi-gloss or eggshell white alkyd enamel without having to top coat it with any other paint? Trying to get the paint to blend in around it is a super challenge, almost not worth it. I am fully aware of full coat at the spot, then full cure, and feather sand, and then thinner coat to blend into surrounding areas, but I am looking for a way to cover the pin holes and not worry about all of that. Running samples is the long hard way to find out, asking someone saves a bundle of time.

[John Coloccia]

Normally when I'm masking, I'll spray one area first (white, for example), lay down the masking tape, and then seal down the edge of the tape by spraying another coat of white along the edge (or clear in my case because it's convenient for me to shoot clear lacquer)....any bleeding won't show because it's just more white. Then I spray the second color, and I always get nice sharp lines. I do this with lacquer. Would this work with the kind of paint that you're considering?

[Bob Feeser]

Normally when I'm masking, I'll spray one area first (white, for example), lay down the masking tape, and then seal down the edge of the tape by spraying another coat of white along the edge (or clear in my case because it's convenient for me to shoot clear lacquer)....any bleeding won't show because it's just more white. Then I spray the second color, and I always get nice sharp lines. I do this with lacquer. Would this work with the kind of paint that you're considering?

I am fascinated with your technique. So essentially you are creating a masking line that has either the same color white or a clear as the first coat that hits the tape, and then when applying the other color you never get any of the other color touching the tapes bare edge thereby creating the appearance of a perfect edge even if the tape allows a little tiny sneak under. The sneak under is still white etc. Wow that it incredible thinking. I'm not a kiss ass, I am generally impressed. Seriously. I would need to experiment with this before actually using it.
In my vast automotive experience a few rules I used to use when doing two tone fine line taping, that at times would show right on the hood for example was to make sure the surface being taped to was free from any kind of sliicone or grease. And to use 3m or an equivalent quailty tape because cheapy tapes sometimes don't stick to well and can result in jagged edges because they are barely sticking. I was thinking about oversrpraying or should I say overlapping the first coat, let it dry and then fine line it off but then you run into the oil base and water base challenges of what should go on first, and which needs to be fully cured before applying etc. I have found that if you mask up to an edge, and spray. Let it cure, and then mask along the same edge, when you lift the tape there are jaggies.
This is why I am asking.
I really think leaving the small edge moldings off while spraying the wainscoting, and then spray the moldings on horses at the same time. Let it all cure. Then cut 45's to fit in the corners. Then use a pin nailer to attach, with maybe a tad drop of silicone here and there underneath, or maybe a paintable caulk so as to not contaminate the area, and leave a ledge, or indentation where the wood meets the painted surface and never really paint up to that again. Actually I was hoping to find a way to fill in the 23 gauge pin nailer holes without disturbing the spray finish at all.

[John Coloccia]

I forget who taught me that. It was years and years ago, and someone just mentioned matter of factly, "Oh, we just seal the edge of the tape by spraying a light coat of clear lacquer or just more base coat color if that's still in the gun". LOL. Simple and effective.

[Jason Roehl]

1. Install trim
2. Spackle all nail holes
3. Sand
4. Clean
5. Caulk all joints
6. Paint trim
7. Mask off trim
8. Paint walls

This is more or less how all pro painters do it. Without caulking the joints, it will not look right. With painted trim, all fillers and caulk should be painted.

[Rich Engelhardt]

6. Paint trim
7. Mask off trim
8. Paint walls

This is more or less how all pro painters do it

I used to do walls first, then trim - never used tape. Too slow and left too ragged an edge. Never used anything less than a 3 1/2" sash tool either.
That was then - and now is now though.
I still do it that way @ home (where I can dangle a cigarette from my mouth).
On a job site is a different story....

I never could figure out exactly why a cigarette or cigar helped draw laser straight lines.

[Alex Horvath]

I put in a lot of paint grade trim in my house and I sprayed it all in place with HVLP using Ben Moore alkyd SI. I use Jason's sequence. I prime with alkyd primer before the trim is installed (the primer on the pre primed mdf is usually crap) because it's much easier to sand but this makes hiding the nail holes harder. Seems that most pros prime in place but it's hard to sand into inside corners and of course your house will be filled with dust.

The main problem with hvlp is the overspray fog (running wide onto walls is fine - latex over oil with high quality latex is not an issue).
I solved this by running an exhaust box fan in the doorway and opening windows or doors for intake air. You will still get some overspray fog in areas where you don't have intake air but of course you need to basically cover most everything that you don't want paint on anyway, at least within 10' or so. I initially taped the fan into the doorway with plastic and put a filter on the fan to catch overspray but this is overkill IMO - Objects right in the path of the fan had no paint on them.

I mostly use tape when putting the latex wall paint on. The best tape IMO is the 3M delicate surface because it has more of a plastic base as opposed to crepe paper. I found the frog tape did not work at all when applying it to oil base trim - it did not stick. With this method I can get close to 90% perfect paint lines if the trim is clean properly caulked.

I have always said that this kind of painting is near automotive quality and almost as much work. It usually takes me a couple tries to get invisible nail holes.

P.S. Recently I've had trouble with BM alkyd SI when thinning with mineral spirits. The paint doesn't seem to cure properly resulting in little or no sheen unless temps are very warm (70+) so test before you commit.

[john lampros]

whoa, filling nail holes with calk is a bad idea. use painters putty. calk shrinks too much and leaves a crappy finish and will look even worse with a good oil finish on it. I garuntee you will be able to find every nail hole when you done. you]ll be able to spot them from across the room There is an art to puttying. putty should be applied after priming but before undercoating and finishing, it is best left proud to dry and sanded flush. avoid any latex product. Oil paint stableizes the wood ( slows down seasonal shrinking and swelling. High quality work was back primed (with a thin coat of bullseye (pigmented shalack) Calking is for anywhere 2 pieces meet ie. baseboard to wall, caseing to buck etc. apply and wipe with your pinky finger and wet rag and rinse very often. apply as little as possible, you dont want to see rounded inside corners. it should look like an architectural drawing when done. no cracks no gaps. and use an undercoater. its like body filler and dries flat so it absorbs your to coat and powders up beautifuly when sanding (220) spray all you want but it wont come out as well as a quality brushed finish put on by a pro. It takes about 1.5 hours to calk and putty and sand a typical double casing and about 15 minutes to paint(brush) I've had customers swear I sprayed their finish.

[Jason Roehl]

Oil paint is awful compared to today's quality acrylic enamels. There's been virtually zero research done on oil paints in the last 20 years, and they're actually outlawed in many places for sale to non-professionals. I don't care for putty because it's too stiff to completely fill nail holes, especially smaller holes, which is why I use lightweight spackle.

I also hate having to re-paint old oil trim jobs--the paint doesn't flex with the movement of the wood and cracks and chips which then have to be scraped and sanded.

[Alex Horvath]

I am pretty good with brush but on large flat surfaces like wide jambs, stair risers or wainscot I could always see the brush marks in reflected light. With penetrol and working on small projects on my bench I could get near spray quality but for installed flat trim, forget it...

I have trouble believing that a brush can match a spray job with the current oil base products although I have heard old timers claim perfect results with the pre VOC regulated oil based products.
The newer acrylic paints like BM waterbourne SI are self leveling but hell to use. Any edge like hinge mortises or slightly offset miters traps paint which then immedately runs.

The BM store where I buy paint can't keep enough of the oil based SI in stock. Howevr, they actually discourage non professionals from using the waterbourne product because they get too many complaints.

[Jim Becker]

Green "frog" tape to get your initial edge and then a very steady hand to "clean up" anything. If your brush technique is really good, you actually don't need the tape, especially on "new construction" where the lines are relatively straight....it's a "feel" thing to run the brush down the line.