Sawstop Benchtop Saw...

[Phil Thien]

I don't think they've had too many instances of people "hot-dogging" the saws in factories and shops, where the owner of the saw isn't the primary user. I really doubt jobsite employees will be much different. Sure, there will be some, but the majority of carpenters I've known have been pretty serious guys, not knuckleheads.

And there are plenty of independent contractors that would be the sole users of the saw that would certainly benefit from the safety features.

[John Coloccia]

Funny to read all of the doom and gloom scenarios of why it will never work, why it's more dangerous, etc. It's the same nonsense we've been hearing for years. "People will be more reckless and get injured more." So just how many serious injuries has this new "dangerous" technology produced?






Anyone?

[Greg Peterson]

My popcorn ran out. Fill me in on what I missed.

+1 with John. I'm shocked that SS hasn't accounted for any or all the design deficiencies brought in this thread. To hear some tell, guys will be bringing hot dogs to work the play with the saw.

I know a contractor, one man operation, that missed a little over a year of work because his hand, not fingers, got caught in the blade. This is an experienced, high end contractor that does well beyond industry standard work. The several hundred dollar premium for SS technology on a SS saw is a pittance.

Good thing Wilbur and Orville didn't listen to all the experts in their era.

[Derek Gilmer]

My popcorn ran out. Fill me in on what I missed.

+1 with John. I'm shocked that SS hasn't accounted for any or all the design deficiencies brought in this thread. To hear some tell, guys will be bringing hot dogs to work the play with the saw.

I know a contractor, one man operation, that missed a little over a year of work because his hand, not fingers, got caught in the blade. This is an experienced, high end contractor that does well beyond industry standard work. The several hundred dollar premium for SS technology on a SS saw is a pittance.

Good thing Wilbur and Orville didn't listen to all the experts in their era.

I'm not saying no one will buy it. I just can't see it being a "revolution" in job site safety that some claim. Just like I don't think sawstop revolutionized how cabinet saws are purchased. Powermatic, grizzly, delta etc are still selling great saws to great people. Sadly sawstop threads seem to devolve into a nearly religious debate where you are forced to be pro or anti sawstop. It is cool tech and I'm glad it exists. But some people can carry on with out it.

[Don Wacker]

Funny to read all of the doom and gloom scenarios of why it will never work, why it's more dangerous, etc. It's the same nonsense we've been hearing for years. "People will be more reckless and get injured more." So just how many serious injuries has this new "dangerous" technology produced?


Anyone?

I dont think the technology itself is going to cause any real injuries but reality says kids will be kids but they are going to be stupid no matter what. If they are not doing something wrong with a saw they are shooting each other with nails. Its when the technology fails is when the real problems come for the little guy. Lets face it Sawstop is Lawyers that saw a financial opportunity and are running with it full steam. They did their homework and im sure have made darn good and sure they will not be liable in the event of a failure. These little job site saw are fine for the home hobbyist that are looking for a little bit of extra protection from human error. But are they realy a job site tool that gets used and abused, never maintained usually sliding around in the back of a pick-up truck.
I dont know a single contractor that is getting rich in the industry most are just barely getting by. Sure when the technology fails their L&I is going to cover the hospital bills and pay the guy for a finger. Its the lawsuit against the contractor for faulty safety equipment that is going to put him in a court battle. He isnt going to be able to file for bankruptcy bail out and inc. protection isnt going to do squat. Are the lawyers that own Sawstop going to step in and help out? Dont get me wrong Im not anti-lawyer, Im married to one but really where are they going to be when sh$% hits the fan. This equipment is going to age just like every other tool we own its going to fail eventually just like your cordless drill. When it does the little guy is going to pay dearly for the false sense of security.

Don

[Anthony Whitesell]

I'm not worried about the small 1-2 man, maybe even 4-6 man, operations that know and understand their livelihood is in the saw and replacement cartridges are coming form their pocket and paycheck. I think most of us are are talking about the mid to large size companies. Condo builders, office building construction, etc. where there's dozens of guys on the site working for the same company with less "supervision". Those are the groups that will go "play with the brake". Those are the guys that will "get annoyed" when the brake fires on wet wood and place it in bypass for every cut so they can "get their job done". In these cases, they've defeated the purpose and are no more or less likely to get bit than they were before there was a sawstop saw on site.

I think everyone is right to some extent. Only time will tell to what extent. I sincerely believe that all the scenerios that we've proposed will happen, and at a greater than just a passing frequency.

[John Nesmith]

I am in the camp that believes, if used on a job-site, the brake would either be constantly overridden or there would be frequent misfires (both intentional and unintentional)

[Alan Schaffter]

Maybe they should make it so you need a key to override the brake- and the supervisor keeps the key.

[John Coloccia]

Maybe they should make it so you need a key to override the brake- and the supervisor keeps the key.

That's how they're all designed already. Invariably, Alan, all of he negativity is written by people that really don't know much about the product, so don't be taken in by any of it. People like me, who use it everyday, experience none of the problems that we're supposedly supposed to experience.

[Anthony Whitesell]

That's how they're all designed already. Invariably, Alan, all of he negativity is written by people that really don't know much about the product, so don't be taken in by any of it. People like me, who use it everyday, experience none of the problems that we're supposedly supposed to experience.

The override requires a key or code? I didn't notice a key hole or keypad when the Woodcraft demo'ed the saw for me.

I'm trying not to be negative or positive, just trying to put out thoughts based on experience. I do think the sawstop tech is great and would be on the top of my list when I buy my first new saw. I do worry about the availability of the brakes, if something happens to SawStop and in this economy you never know.

[Victor Robinson]

The override requires a key or code? I didn't notice a key hole or keypad when the Woodcraft demo'ed the saw for me.

I'm trying not to be negative or positive, just trying to put out thoughts based on experience. I do think the sawstop tech is great and would be on the top of my list when I buy my first new saw. I do worry about the availability of the brakes, if something happens to SawStop and in this economy you never know.

It's a key. There is a keyhole on the side of the switch box.

[Mike Heidrick]

I own a sawstop ICS. To start the saw in bypass mode you have to arm the saw (by flipping on the smaller switch), you wait until the indicator lights go green, you turn the key (and the light starts flashing), and while turning the key (the key is spring loaded) you flip on the paddle switch and the bl;ade starts spinning. Once you power off the saw you have to repeat the procedure to start it in bypass mode. It defaults to starting with the brake enabled.

[David Kumm]

Competing companies need to get their alternatives out there. The boat has sailed and like it or not, employers will be compelled to replace saws to reduce insurance and legal exposure. Employees will use the SS and in the small companies the owners who work in the field will use the old until they are gone. Given the state of the world you can not assume people will act responsibly but that will just be a cost of operation that will pass to the consumer. Competition needs to develop as SS should not be the only choice. I'm not sure they will be able to produce enough and employers will be between a rock and a hard place until saws are available. If I really want to fantasize I could hope that some the the competing saws would be made here and people would be willing to pay the upcharge for US jobs. Dream on. Dave

[Rob Sack]

800 dollars for a plastic portable saw? You really think that contractors will jump at that? I am guessing the 400-500 you have to spend to get a 744 or a 4100 is pushing it, But I have been wrong before. I loved my 744 for what it could do as aortable saw but I was just barely able to justify the expense over my 99 dollar delta that did 99 percent of what the 744 could do with just a little more hassle. I think Sawstop might want consider that sometimes a product has a market and sometimes no matter what the product is the market isn't there for it. And not to sound stereotypical because I would consider myself a contractor or at least a wanna be one, but the average contractor isn't going to WANT to spend 800 dollars on a job site saw. I'm not saying they won't but I am saying there is a chance they wont. And sub 1000 is probably closer two a grand then it is 800. There high end saw has a market and they have proven they make a great product but that doesn't always translate downwards. Also if they are able to build the brake technology into a portable 800 dollar saw they are going to have a hard time justifying what they charge for it in their high end saw's.

I have a fairly new Sawstop Industrial Cabinet Saw for the shop and a fairly new Bosch 4100 for installations. The cabinet saw even without the electronic safety devices is better than any other saw that I have used in its class, including including the revered Unisaw. The safety features just make it that much better, not to mention safer. Their customer service is the best I have ever encountered. I have yet to call them and not been able to immediately talk to a live, knowledgeable person. No voicemails, no pressing numbers on my telephone keypad to get to where I am going or talk to whom I need to talk. If and when they come out with a jobsite saw, I will be first in line to purchase one, even though the Bosch 4100 I have with the collapsible stand is terrific. I guess there will always be those curmudgeons that will continue to find fault with the Sawstop concept, find fault with the tools that the company manufactures, lament the company's supposedly evil intentions and greed, and if you pardon the sarcasm, claim that Sawstop has destroyed woodworking for all mankind. I would bet that most of these naysayers have never had any direct dealings with the company and/or never spent any real time with their saws. It's their loss.

[Jonathan Smith]

Rob, I'll be second in line after you!