Waterlox FS over Waterlox Satin?

[denis tuomey]

Has anyone ever put a coat of the Finish/sealer on top of the Satin. After wiping 4 coats of FS on cherry (at which time the appearence was very nice) I brushed on 1 coat of the WL satin, it had alot of fuzz specks so I lightly sanded w/1200 n water and brushed another coat on, still have alot of specks although not as many but now it looks very cloudy, seems like it has blocked out the beauty in the grain. Was wondering if another coat of FS would bring it back or do I need to sand it back and re-coat with FS.

[Scott Holmes]

I suspect the "cloudy" issue is from WET sanding between coats of finish. It is better to dry sand between coats. Wet sanding can leave a slurry of dust behind that tends to get trpped and look white under the next coat of finish.

Dry sanding between coats should be 220 to about 400. 1200 is way too fine and of course, 1200 is usually a wet sand grit.

Waterlox SF and their regular finish are the same once they dry and cure. The sheen may vary, but the varnish is the same. The SF is thinned to a wipe-on consistency the others are not.

[Howard Acheson]

A probably reason for the cloudy appearance is the application of the Waterlox satin. Waterlox's satin is quite a bit more satin that many other manufacturer's varnish. Why did you feel you needed to apply the satin if the Sealer/Finish was giving you a good appearance?

You could wipe on another coat of the Sealer/Finish and you would be back to where you were prior to applying the satin.

[denis tuomey]

I did notice quite a bit of difference in the can after I stirred up the satin, compared to the SF, looks like two totally diff. varnishes, and quite a big difference in the smell when drying. I lightly sanded between the coats of SF w/1200 n water and wiped it down with a wet rag then a dry one to smooth it before the next coat (it felt like glass) and still looked good w/ a slight dullness to the sheen. I went with the Waterlox Satin (1st x to use) because we like the satin look ( have always worked w/the wipe on satin poly) but you are right Waterlox Satin is quite abit more satin then what I've used in the past. I have 3/4 of a qt. left I guess I can sell cheap! So I guess I'll try another coat of the SF and hope it gives me clear skies again.

[Prashun Patel]

Also note that the SF gloss settles down after a week or so. I'd put on a coat + of the SF and then be patient to see how it settles out.

[Henry Ambrose]

I think you are seeing the "flattener" in the satin material, so sand it back. 1200 is much too fine for sanding this out - 400 would be just about overkill.

[Howard Acheson]

>>>> 1200 is much too fine for sanding this out - 400 would be just about overkill.

Correct. Between coat sanding should be done with 320 or 400 grit paper. It should be used dry. It takes 3-4 weeks for oil based finishes to cure enough that it won't be damaged by water or other liquid sanding lubricant.

[denis tuomey]

Well, I hand sanded the top down w/ 400 and Dist. water till it was smooth as glass, dull, but glass smooth. If you held the top up on a angle you could see a good reflection and it looked as if you were looking on glass but looking at it straight on = very dull ?????
After wiping it down with a wet rag then dry rag I wiped on 1 coat of the SF, this morning it is slick as glass, hardly any specks/nibs but has quite a bit more gloss then preferred. The can says it takes 30-60 days to dry back to a 50-55 gloss level, I guess I'll wait n see but figure I should apply 2 more coats in case I have to rub it down to the desired sheen.
BTW I tried to first hand sand dry with the 400, I did'nt sand much before the paper was filled + lotta powder to get airborne. I really prefer sanding w/Dist. water vs. dry, no dust and the paper goes a long way, seems to give s super smooth surface.

[Howard Acheson]

>>>> I hand sanded the top down w/ 400 and Dist. water till it was smooth as glass, dull, but glass smooth.

Of course, it's going to be dull. It's all scratched up by the sandpaper. That's what sand paper does. Sanding is scratching. By between coat sanding what you are trying to accomplish is to make or keep the surface flat and and smooth. 320-400 grit leaves scratches minute enough that they will be filled by the next coat of finish. There is no point or value in going beyond 320-400 grit. Even 1200 grit still leaves minute, microscopic scratches. To get a gloss finish, you must use a polishing compound after the sandpaper to bring up a gloss.

[Henry Ambrose]

Yes to wet sanding.

After this finish gets good and hard you might try to rub it out with pumice and/or rottenstone.
Its a lot of work but may be how you get the look you want.

[Ken Shoemaker]

I just recently found out something very interesting about using the FS Original.

I built a new cross-cut sled and made the fences out of QSWO. I sanded them down to 220, then brushed on two coats (unthinned) of WL FS. Out of curiosity, I thinned down the next coat to 50/50 with MS. When I wiped it on, it clearly took some of the "shine" out of the finish. Ultimately, I wiped on 4 additional coats. The "glow" is reminicent of using a satin finish but you do not have the cloudyness of satin. Now this is the first time I did it, so I am building a small walnut box to try this again. (Note: I followed Mr. Holmes advice to wipe it on like wiping a table at a fast food resturant. Do it fast and thin.)

If this works as well as it did with the QSWO, I think I have hit on the only finish I need going forward. I'm excited about seeing how this works out. It's so easy to do and get a great finish.

Ken

[Henry Ambrose]

I just recently found out something very interesting about using the FS Original.

I built a new cross-cut sled and made the fences out of QSWO. I sanded them down to 220, then brushed on two coats (unthinned) of WL FS. Out of curiosity, I thinned down the next coat to 50/50 with MS. When I wiped it on, it clearly took some of the "shine" out of the finish. Ultimately, I wiped on 4 additional coats. The "glow" is reminicent of using a satin finish but you do not have the cloudyness of satin. Now this is the first time I did it, so I am building a small walnut box to try this again. (Note: I followed Mr. Holmes advice to wipe it on like wiping a table at a fast food resturant. Do it fast and thin.)

If this works as well as it did with the QSWO, I think I have hit on the only finish I need going forward. I'm excited about seeing how this works out. It's so easy to do and get a great finish.

Ken

This is a very good technique and works really well with Waterlox.

[denis tuomey]

[QUOTE=Howard Acheson;1828236]>>>> I hand sanded the top down w/ 400 and Dist. water till it was smooth as glass, dull, but glass smooth.

Of course, it's going to be dull. It's all scratched up by the sandpaper. That's what sand paper does. Sanding is scratching.

I thourohly understand what sandpaper does! I was simply using the word "dull" in my reply to express the huge difference seen when the top was held at an angle to the light, like a reflection seen on glass.
Now after 2 wipe on coats of WL SF I have an extremely hi gloss which I plan to rub to a satin with pumice after 60 days if it doesnt dull back on its own.

[Ken Shoemaker]

Denis,

I bet that after 60 days you'll find the high gloss will "settle down" a great deal. Best of luck with your project. I hope we'll see some pictures of it when you get it how you want it.

Ken