Let's talk chisels

[jeff . whitaker]

Humm... Ok so I got a gift card for Lee Valley ($200.) looked around the shop and tried to decide if I wanted/needed .. I am new to the Neanderthal thing and tried to decide if I wanted a plane or chisels..
Well the planes I have are old ones I got from my father and grandfather,Stanley block planes, and no#s 4, 6 and 7...
What else would I need? Got them sharpened and tuned *maybe* and te be frank all of the different types at LV leave me confused.. what will I need/want??? so I looked around the shop and my eyes lit on my Marples chisels..( sheffield england) thought I was buying top o' the line when I got them 5 years ago.. and they are better than the "tool shaped objects" that I had... three of them hold an edge for a while... three of them DO NOT! So what is the consensus about the Narex chisels ??? or should I back up and rethink the planes??
HELP!
(drowning in a sea of indecision)

[Zach England]

Word is the Veritas is releasing their own branded chisels soon. Lee Valley also carries the new Stanley chisels. I have no experience with any of these--just pointing out some options. Also, Lee Valley has free shipping from now until the end of the year.

[Joe Fabbri]

Hi Jeff,

I think if you already have a few old planes that aren't in really bad shape, you should focus on rehabing those. They'll likely be better than newer lesser brand planes, especially if well-tuned. Maybe you should think about investing in a decent sharpening stone. Lee Valley has quite a few options. I settled on the 1000/4000 water stone to start with. You could go higher with the stone grit, but like the website says, this is a good introduction to water stones, which is what I wanted.

So, I think I would say go with the chisels. I bought their Narex set a few months back at the same time. This is my first real set of chisels. I debated for a while between the new Stanley's and the Narex, but in the end the reviews swayed me to Narex. I think the Stanley's didn't have enough time to catch on, and they have a bad reputation to fight. I know some say they really like the Stanley's, while others don't at all. So, in the end I went for the price basically. I bought 10 Narex for about half the price of the Stanley's 9 (when LV had the sale on them).

The Narex are pretty good. The steel is pretty nice, but you have to look them over when you get them. I know on a few of mine the handles were not square to the steel. That's what you'll get with a lesser priced chisel, but you might also end up with the same from Stanley as well. I guess it depends on the batch you receive. What's great, though, about LV is they have very good customer service, so correcting any issues is not a problem.

But, I'm curious, maybe you can still revive your Marples. The English made chisels were good quality from what I hear. Perhaps someone ground the steel too hot, and you lost the temper on the edge, which is why it won't stay sharp. I'm not sure if you have to retemper it or if you can simply carefully grind back a bit until you reach better steel. Someone else here can help you answer that I'm sure.

Joe

[Tom Lauder]

I just bought a set of narex classic bevel edge chisels largely based on the fine woodworking review that named Narex the best overall value bench chisels. I have not had a chance to flatten the backs and sharpen them up yet but I like the way they feel in my hand.

Tom

[Tom Hartranft]

Humm... Ok so I got a gift card for Lee Valley ($200.) looked around the shop and tried to decide if I wanted/needed .. I am new to the Neanderthal thing and tried to decide if I wanted a plane or chisels..
(drowning in a sea of indecision)

Dear Drowning in a sea of indecision,

I know where you are coming from. IMHO, use ~$35 of your $200 gift card and buy Chris Schwartz's relatively new book, "The Anarchist's Toolchest." http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...10&cat=51&ap=1

The book will walk you through some ins and outs of handtool working, what can be done with handtools, array of handtools, sharpening of edge tools, etc. and even recommend a basic suite of handtools to acquire for fundamental handtool work. After reading this book, you will be in a better position to decide what to buy next after digesting the book material. Yes, I know, you'd like immediate recommendations on what tools to buy, but it really depends on what you are gonna do with them and how your are going to maintain them ... sharpening is a whole other story (and cost) that makes handtool work especially enjoyable. Only time and experience and reading will help you on that. You can sink a whole lot of $$$ into Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley, etc new handtools. I've acquired used Stanley planes, chisels, etc off of Ebay and on woodworking forums over the past five or so years concurrent with evolving what I want / need to do with handtools, how to sharpen them, and how to best use them. I am comfortable mixing basic power tool work with handtools ... they each have their place in my woodshop.

Tom

[jeff . whitaker]

Hi Jeff,

I think if you already have a few old planes that aren't in really bad shape, you should focus on rehabing those. They'll likely be better than newer lesser brand planes, especially if well-tuned. Maybe you should think about investing in a decent sharpening stone. Lee Valley has quite a few options. I settled on the 1000/4000 water stone to start with. You could go higher with the stone grit, but like the website says, this is a good introduction to water stones, which is what I wanted.
Thanks Joe, I have tried to rehab them to the best of my (limited) skills..and they work' but I am starting to understand this is a skill I must practise to aquire, I have a few books on hand planes ( Hack and Schwarz ect.) My shapening is done with sandpaper ala the scary sharp system.. tried doing it on the oil stone I inherited not a good thing for me...

So, I think I would say go with the chisels. I bought their Narex set a few months back at the same time. This is my first real set of chisels. I debated for a while between the new Stanley's and the Narex, but in the end the reviews swayed me to Narex. I think the Stanley's didn't have enough time to catch on, and they have a bad reputation to fight. I know some say they really like the Stanley's, while others don't at all. So, in the end I went for the price basically. I bought 10 Narex for about half the price of the Stanley's 9 (when LV had the sale on them).
I admit I was/am pulled to the Stanley line...but the reviews I read seemed to be negative.. or at best so so.. as one poster said.. it seems to be a case of a corperation trying to jump on the band wagon and selling you a long gone name with out the qualities that made that name what it was....

The Narex are pretty good. The steel is pretty nice, but you have to look them over when you get them. I know on a few of mine the handles were not square to the steel. That's what you'll get with a lesser priced chisel, but you might also end up with the same from Stanley as well. I guess it depends on the batch you receive. What's great, though, about LV is they have very good customer service, so correcting any issues is not a problem.

But, I'm curious, maybe you can still revive your Marples. The English made chisels were good quality from what I hear. Perhaps someone ground the steel too hot, and you lost the temper on the edge, which is why it won't stay sharp. I'm not sure if you have to retemper it or if you can simply carefully grind back a bit until you reach better steel. Someone else here can help you answer that I'm sure.
Joe, I bought them new and I have never put them on a grind stone... so if the temper is bad (that is what the problem is I think) it was from the factory.. I think I got some of the last ones before Irwin shifted production to china... if so they may have been pushing any thing out the door in the last few days...

Joe

Thanks for your answer
Jeff

[Tony Shea]

The Narex chisels do get good reviews around here and elsewhere. But if I were you I would not go that route. The idea for you is that you want to upgrade from what you already have and I do not believe that the Narex chisels are an upgrade from your Marples. I can not direct you what to buy as I do not know what your planes current condition actually are. But you really can not go wrong with starting with their Bevel Up Jack Plane. You will be amazed at what a well made plane can actually accomplish and this plane does it all, especially for someone just getting into the Neander side of things. This plane with a few extra blades ground for different tasks is an absolute work horse, especially in my shop. I use it primarilly to shoot with a shooting board. But I also use it to smooth when all my bevel down planes fail with knarly grained woods. I actually like the longer length for some smoothing tasks. I have recently played with a toothing blade in it to handle the task of flattening tearout prone boards and it absolutely shines. Im amazed at how well this setup works.

If you took this plane out of my shop I would be lost. Go to Derek Cohen's website to read more about what these BU planes are capable of and how to handle sharpening different angles on other blades to really make the plane versatile. I wish someone reccomended this plane to me as being the first tool to buy!

[jeff . whitaker]

Dear Drowning in a sea of indecision,

I know where you are coming from. IMHO, use ~$35 of your $200 gift card and buy Chris Schwartz's relatively new book, "The Anarchist's Toolchest." http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...10&cat=51&ap=1

Already got it!! Never read anything that struck such a note inside.. In fact I have read parts of it 5 or 6 time arguing with THE SCHWARZ (in my head) and came away thinking he is right! The book will walk you through some ins and outs of handtool working, what can be done with handtools, array of handtools, sharpening of edge tools, etc. and even recommend a basic suite of handtools to acquire for fundamental handtool work. After reading this book, you will be in a better position to decide what to buy next after digesting the book material. Yes, I know, you'd like immediate recommendations on what tools to buy, but it really depends on what you are gonna do with them and how your are going to maintain them ... sharpening is a whole other story (and cost) that makes handtool work especially enjoyable. Only time and experience and reading will help you on that. You can sink a whole lot of $$$ into Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley, etc new handtools. I've acquired used Stanley planes, chisels, etc off of Ebay and on woodworking forums over the past five or so years concurrent with evolving what I want / need to do with handtools, how to sharpen them, and how to best use them. I am comfortable mixing basic power tool work with handtools ... they each have their place in my woodshop.


Tom

Tom, I agree.. both hand and power tools have their place in my shop.. (I for one do NOT want to hand rip a 5/4 X 8 ft oak plank, Yee Gods and little fishes, that sounds like W**K!
Used tools? good idea too but.. there seems to be a dearth of used tools down here at yard sales, C List , and the flea market.. few and far between and pricy.. (well the internet says Stanley planes are worth $400. so we will price this one the same way)
Ebay.. if I am not sure what makes a tool a good tool.. and I can not pick it up and get a feel for it.... maybe not a good idea at this time for me....also what started this thread.. I have gift card that is burning a hole n my pocket *LOL*

[Greg Wease]

Welcome to the wonderful world of hand tools. Here are some things to consider. Since you have the Lee Valley gift card I'll stick to their offerings.

I have used Marples chisels for years, not the best but adequate for most jobs. I do like the Narex chisels and consider them to be a good value. Maybe I have been lucky, but I haven't experienced the quality problems mentioned by others. The profile of the latest Narex chisels is better for joinery (dovetails) than the Marples. You didn't say what size Marples chisels you have. Rather than buying a whole set you might try a coupld of sizes. I think my 1/4" and 3/4" chisels get the most use at my bench.

If your planes are Baileys (Handyman not so much) I would do as you say, clean them up and put them to use. Learn to sharpen the original blades--so take a look at the sharpening stuff Lee Valley sells. Eventually you might consider buying the Veritas (or Hock) blades for improved performance. You will find the #4 and #7 planes to be your go-to sizes (in my opinion) so I would concentrate on those.

Don't forget about layout tools. Measuring and marking is an integral part of both hand and powered woodworking and Lee Valley sells some excellent layout tools. And saws! And ...

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Jeff,

As to your planes, you have a good set for starting out. There are only a few you may consider adding. One would be a #5. That is something you can pick up at a yard sale if you look enough and get there early. Always ask where the tools are on display.

If you wanted to get new, then my suggestion would be to get a Low Angle Jack. This will be a bit more useful for shooting than a bevel down plane.

As for chisels, my belief is one can not have too many chisels. Others see this differently. Almost all of my chisels were bought used. This can take a lot of time.

Lee Valley would be a good place to purchase new chisels. There customer service is exemplary.

My preference is for socket handled chisels. It is much easier to make and fit a socket handle than a tang handle, at least for me.

jtk

[Archie England]

First, I'm extremely opinionated about this.
Second, I'm a second-rate critic at best.
Third, I'm loving my LN chisels.

Having bought so many cheap chisels, even good cheap chisels, ALL I CAN SHOUT AT YOU IS, "Don't do it.!" You really do get what you pay for. Buy right; so buy once!!!!!!

Though I had arrived at the point of buying the Illes chisels (at TFWW), a used set of LNs appeared in the classifieds awhile back, and I bought'em. I'm somewhat of a sharpening junkie (with Japanese Ceramic waterstones), so sharp blades are an issue of pride with me. I do get my blades very sharp!!!! However, I watch a lot of these sharp edges crumble--over and over and over. I keep cutting deeper into the steel, thinking that I'll hit good Sheffield steel, only to find another crumbled, chipped blade from chopping mortices and/or dovetails. That is, until I bought my LN's. Wow, what fantastic edges these chisels maintain. I crumbled three less expensive chisel edges while chopping a dovetail in SYP (very dry). Frustrated, I pulled out a LN for the next three joints, which I completed without the LN edge collapsing--or even needing to be resharpened.

So, buy quality chisels.

I hear the house brand carried by LV is actually a very good chisel: takes and holds a good edge.
I had decided that it would be Illes, LN, or BlueSpruce, although my budget preferred Narex. I'm so glad I splurged. The LNs are just that good. I have to believe that other quality chisels will provide you the same enjoyment that I'm now having.

end of RANT.

Arch

[Jim Matthews]

I doubt there's anything wrong with your Marples chisels, if they're the blue handled version.
If you're seeing an edge crumble in use, the sharpening angle is suspect.

I would ask what kind of hand work you do, before purchasing any tool.
For my money, the detail set has been a godsend - they get into places I can't otherwise reach.

The medium sized shoulder plane is a marvel for 3/4" sized work and the Monster shoulder plane is also near your budget.

That said, the Narex set got passing marks at the last chisel shootout run by Chris Gochnour for FWW.

[David Weaver]

I would buy two vintage stanley or PS&W chisels (or really any brand vintage plain steel that has a profile that you like, ....witherby, etc) to replace the two marples chisels you have that don't hold an edge as well as you want them to.

Or two vintage marples chisels - the older ones have a good reputation.

I say that as someone who has bought a lot of chisels, from LN's and RIs to Japanese chisels to old laminated chisels. There is an element of tool pushing and Gentleman's tool advocating in current publications that really doesn't have anything to do with the reality of working wood.

[Scott Stafford]

I can only speak for myself.

When it comes to the tool budget, I can always come up with $20 or maybe even as much as $50 if I show some real discipline. But very seldom do I have $200 scraped together for tools at one time.

This said, I would consider the Veritas bevel up smoother for $219 with free freight this week. This is close to the equivalent of a Stanley 4 1/2, which you don't have. With its easily adjustable mouth, easily swappable blades, and low center of gravity, it is one of my favorite go-to planes.

Sure it may cost a bit more to buy chisels one at a time, but it's easier than saving to buy a great plane.


Very best regards,

Scott in Montana

[glenn bradley]

My Marples are my daily users in that size. You may want to consider the angle you are sharpening to or possibly a micro-bevel to extend edge retention. I also use Lee Valley's Butt chisels as my users for that type of work. All were inexpensive and of course do not have the edge retention of chisels that are $75 - $100 each. Unfortunately, some "$75 - $100 each" chisels also do not have that kind of edge retention . I have a WorkSharp 3000 and keep it right on the bench if I am gong to be doing any extensive chisel work. As soon as the chisel loses that super-fine edge I stick it in the WS3K a couple times and go back to work in about 1 second. This will not work if you overwork the edge and cause the need for more than just a touch-up. The Worksharp is still quick when more attention is required but, the worse off your tool, the lower the benefit due to the time required to run through the grits. I have some nice older planes too, but reach for my Veritas first every time. I'm sure an equivalent quality chisels would soon become my favorites as well .