hollowing rig comparisons

[allen thunem]

ok i need some advice on which hollowing system is best suited for someone who wishes to enter the realm of hollow forms, i.e. a newbie to the genre.
have sat back and admired long enough, now it is time to take the plunge into this particular genre of woodturning and see what i can accomplish.
i realize there are many variables in selecting a tool but i am looking for generalizations, ease of use, cost, QUALITY, best bang for the buck. etc etc
keep it brief and to the point of the thread if you would please, I know discussions on tools can get off track rather quickly.

[Scott Hackler]

Allen,

There is a couple different types of hollowing systems out there, captured and articulated. Captured are generally thought of for deeper applications, but people use them for smaller turnings as well. Captured are generally cheaper. And because of the design are generally sliding metal on metal for the movement.

The articulated systems are very popular and you can buy an expensive one with a big boring bar to go deep, but generally they are thought of for under 8" deep vessels. Because of the bearings and joints, they are very smooth in operation. They are also more expensive (generally).

Captured examples are available from D-Way, Jamieson, Monster and Carter even has a version (Hollow Roller...I own this one).

Articulated examples are Elbo Tool, Monster, Gizmo and Kobra (in order from left to right for build and expense).

Opinions will vary greatly, but in my opinion..... The articulated setup from Monster is a tremendous value since it's a good tool and the price of the set includes a laser and a bunch of extras for under $500.

[Peter Blair]

I too am trying to decide. One system that is not mentioned above is the Derry System. It can be seen here
http://www.derrytools.com/index.html

[Joe Watson]

Heres a site i found a couple weeks ago:
http://www.svwoodturners.org/Handout...gSystems1.html

and a thread
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...m-works-better


_

[Rick Markham]

I'd have to agree whole heartedly with Scott. It all comes down to your wants and desires. The Monster is an extraordinary deal. Many turners have proven it's abilities on here. The Kobra is just an unbelievable system, quite possibly only limited by your lathe size/imagination, but it's price tag is quite a bit higher than the Monster. Either way you go, you are going to be one happy turner Have fun shopping!

[Bill Walsh]

Allen, take a look at the Hollow-Pro Tools sold through Craft Supply. I use them in a captive system moldeled after a Jamieson system. The Jamieson can be home built if your a metal worker or have a buddy that can weld some parts together. Mike Jackofsky will answer all of your questions if you e-mail him. I've used several hollowing tools and all of them will get the job done but I feel the Hollow-Pro is one of the best systems out there. They are pricy but you normally get what you pay for!!!!

[Bill Wyko]

I personally use a Keith Clark system. I will say though, it's big and heavy so I don't use it much. But if you want to go deep into a project, this one can't be beat. Not very practical for smaller turnings due to its size. I've gone 22 inches into a vessel with no problem though.

[BILL DONAHUE]

Like most things, there are many opinions on this and the best thing may be to try out as many as you can by yourself. That's certainly one of the benefits of woodturning schools, symposiums and clubs. I used the elbow at the John Campbell School but then after trying a mini monster bought it. When I unexpectedly upgraded my Jet mini to a PM 3520B I got another base to adapt the mini monster to the larger swing. Was then disappointed by the lack of depth which for me was only about 5" with the mini on the PM. Got to try out the Jamieson at a symposium and bought it on the spot. Can get to about 12" and with the symposium pricing I paid about $360. The laser is better than on the mini and the DVD is fantastic. The overlooked aspect of most of these systems is setting it up and using it properly. Good luck!

[Scott Hackler]

I guess I should have added my own experience with the only hollowing system in the shop, the Carter Hollow Roller. I won this in the Beauty and the Beast contest over on WTA, but opted to buy the laser and the hunter bit "out of pocket". This system is a fancy captured setup. The boring bar is flat on the bottom side and it is "pinched" between metal rollers in the "capturing" portion. When set up and the rollers are waxed, the motion is a lot more fluid than the standard captive systems, because its actually rolling instead of just sliding across the metal capture device. There is very little play for the tool to rotate and during hollowing it remains pretty stable. The laser I bought for it is darn heavy duty and a pretty decent design.

Its limitations are that there isn't any smaller boring bars or swan neck bars available yet, the need of three different allen wrenches to adjust the laser and blade, and with the big handle attached, it is physically pretty large. I have spoken with an engineer at Carter and suggested remedies to the above and a few tweaks as well. They are looking into the suggestions.

Overall its a good captured type unit and it "gets the job done well". The expense (with the laser) is about the same the Monster. I believe I have a small advantage in the depth of hollowing capacity department, but the Monster is more compact and comes with a few more attachments.

[Joe Landon]

I prefer to use hand held hollowing tools. I like the control they give me. I use Trent Bosch 5/8" straight and bent for most of my work. John Jordan also has some tools with a similar design.

[Jack Mincey]

I use John Jordan 3/4" hollowing bars and a few that I've made for all my smaller forms say up to 8" deep. I use to use them up to 12" deep and could feel the abuse to my arms for a day or two after hollowing these deeper forms free hand. After looking around for the best captive system on the market for my needs which is up to 15" deep at this time I went with the Kobra system. It is built like a tank and is used by others to hollow up to 20 plus inches with larger boring bars. It is smooth and feels like I'm hollowing free hand since it's design is with a handle projecting out the back of the tool pivot point which I tuck under my arm and control it just like I do my free hand tools. I can not only hollow down to 15" with this tool and have no stress on my arms I can now do it at least twice as fast and much more accurate than I did before. My Jordan bars fit it with an adapter and work great getting under the lip of HF's. It is the most expensive system I'm aware of, but will worth the money in my book. I lot of turners have both the articulated system like it and a Jamison system to do the same thing I can achieve with the one tool. Saying this it isn't really that much more expensive if one has to have two systems to do what it does on its own. The Kobra's are built by two retired machinist or engineers, not sure. I had to get onto a waiting list and be patient to receive mine. The purchase was great and I ordered a couple little items to fit it later and all has been a very good experience for me.
Jack

[Mark Cothren]

Its limitations are that there isn't any smaller boring bars or swan neck bars available yet...

Scott, you may want to check their site again. I believe Keith showed me yesterday that they are now offering different bars, including both a smaller (5/8")and larger (1") diameter. I don't recall seeing a swan neck bar, but that may be coming.

[Lance kanaby]

I have the Kelton Hollowing Rig with Laser and use it with the Kelton Hollowers and other tools that are 5/8" or 3/4" in shaft size. This rig is very sturdy, easy to use and has no problem going to 14" deep. The only problem I can see is that this rig does not seem to be offered by anyone in the US.

[Scott Hackler]

I see them now! I wonder how the laser is going to attach to the 1" and the 5/8" bar, though. The clamp portion of the laser rig is designed for the 3/4" stock bar. I am certainly glad to see a smaller bar and look forward to seeing them make a swan neck. Thanks for the heads up. Guess I will have to start saving for the smaller bar.

Scott, you may want to check their site again. I believe Keith showed me yesterday that they are now offering different bars, including both a smaller (5/8")and larger (1") diameter. I don't recall seeing a swan neck bar, but that may be coming.

[Peter Blair]

Just got the confirmation that I am in the cue for a Kobra, Yahoo! Now if I can just live long enough to get it . . . Just kidding of course but Al could only say that there are a lot of orders and the I should be patient.
I am in the process of selling my Elbo System as I can no longer face it with the Kobra on the horizon.