Smoke & odor removal

[Dick Adair]

Can anyone recommend a proven smoke and odor removal system. Our social club (bar) has tried "smoke eaters", overhead fans, electronic air purifiers, and exhaust fans (which also remove the heat and/or AC)nothing works very well. I saw an ad for an Air Zone Super 7000 ozone unit. Does anybody have any experience with these or something else. We are looking at about an area of 2500 sf with 10' ceilings. Any ideas for other solutions would be appreciated.

Thank you for your suggestions

[Dan Hintz]

If it's heavy smoke, your best bet is charcoal beds.

[David Helm]

You could consider banning smoking. The problem would then go away.

[Jeff Monson]

I have used an ozonics machine for odor removal on vehicles and confined areas in home use. They work very well in small areas like a car. The machine I own is a smaller unit, so maybe a larger unit would work well in a larger area??? I will say they do work well though, they do omit a "chlorine" kind of smell which does not last that long.

[Van Huskey]

I will say they do work well though, they do omit a "chlorine" kind of smell which does not last that long.

What you are smelling is the ozone. Humans can detect Ozone in parts per billion. Ozone is the triatomic allotrope of Oxygen. With the third oxygen atom attached it is a very unstable molecule and trys its best to get rid of the extra O atom and become the stable diatomic oxygen we need to live. When it passes along this "unwanted" atom to another molecule it comes in "contact" with it oxidizes that molecule, changing the molecule, to use a common but crude and mostly incorrect phrase it bleaches it. Ozone can make an excellent air and water purification system but the key is post filtration "scrubbing" of the Ozone, this is usually done by activated carbon beds. The problem is these beds must be well engineered and maintained or they let ozone escape back into the environment you are attempting to "clean". The problem here is ozone doesn't discriminate and will oxidize many things including human lung tissue. For the healthy person short term exposure to slightly incerased ozone levels is a non issue but some people with diminished lung capacity ie COPD can be negatively impacted by the excess ozone and these are the very people that need the clean air the most. I would never use a ozone system in a public environment as I have never been around one that effectively scrubbed the ozone, if you can smell it, it can be a problem. Even if one has an adequate carbon filter it will take very close monitoring and maintenance.

BTW I just looked it up and the EPA seems to take the same dim view as I do:

http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/ozonegen.html

[Jason Roehl]

Van, there's a bunch of good info there, and I agree with all of it, except if they're trying to get rid of smoke, I would think a little bit of ozone is pretty low on the list of worries for someone with COPD.

FWIW, our church met for about a year in a local VFW chapter building. There were several members who did not attend during that time due to the residual smoke smell and the effect on their respiratory systems (a couple may have been asthmatic). It didn't really bother me, but I did notice that after church my voice was a little raspy every week. I'm thankful I never got hooked on smoking despite my best efforts in college, and I do enjoy a cigar from time to time, thought it's probably been 2-3 years since I've had one. I can't for the life of me figure out why someone would want to smoke inside.

One I heard recently: "Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a pool."

[Van Huskey]

Van, there's a bunch of good info there, and I agree with all of it, except if they're trying to get rid of smoke, I would think a little bit of ozone is pretty low on the list of worries for someone with COPD.

Absolutely, I was just focusing on ozone as an air treatment option at that point, not specific to the OPs situation. The best way to deal with any air polltion is control the source, in this instance if they can't or won't control the source I think there are methods with higher efficacy which don't replace one pollution with another. I think it is better to find a "good" rather than try to choose between the lesser of two "evils".

The other issue is cigarette smoke is an extremely complex aerosol with a ton of different components, my guess in order to truely filter it you would need a multi-stage HEPA filter then an activated carbon matrix as well as a potassium permanganate matrix for chemicals like formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide which isn't trapped well by carbon.

[John Shuk]

Years ago I worked at a company that did restoration work from fires, smoke and soot. We had a machine called a thermo-fogger that had a two stroke engine that blasted out fog that got rid of any smoky odor. We also cleaned all of the walls and carpets before fogging. Likely a film has formed on the walls that will keep the smell going. I think a company like Service Master which is a national franchise might be able to help.

[David Weaver]

You could consider banning smoking. The problem would then go away.

Ditto that. Make the smokers dip while they're in the club if they want tobacco.

[Kevin W Johnson]

One I heard recently: "Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a pool."

Which is why I'm so glad Virginia finally banned smoking in restuarants.

[ray hampton]

how would you non-smokers feel if the states ban all wood turning because of the dust

[Ole Anderson]

how would you non-smokers feel if the states ban all wood turning because of the dust

Man, I would have a real problem with wood dust if I were trying to eat in a restaurant while someone was sanding at the adjacent table.

Sorry couldn't resist.

[Jerome Stanek]

how would you non-smokers feel if the states ban all wood turning because of the dust

I don't care if you smoke but could when you inhale could you keep it in.

[Wayne Hendrix]

how would you non-smokers feel if the states ban all wood turning because of the dust

I don't walk down the street blowing shavings up for everyone else to breathe, sand in restaurants, or throw cutoffs out the window of my car to to hit the car behind me or throw them down on the sidewalk as I walk into buildings. I keep my woodworking in my garage and you can keep your smoking in your house.

[Dan Hintz]

how would you non-smokers feel if the states ban all wood turning because of the dust

I can collect all of my wood dust in a bag/filter at the end of the day, and it doesn't leave my shop until it's compacted into a compostable heap. Can you say the same for your smoke? If you ever smoke in a public place, those non-smokers around you have no choice in the matter, they're forced to get at least a bit of your smoke in their lungs.