Spalted Beech HF: A Prototype?

[Baxter Smith]

Roughed out this HF today. It is the last of the beech that I wanted to try and turn. The rest will be spalted . Maybe some will end up looking like this(but hopefully more solid).
The base of the tree was rotten in the center but there was some spalting around the edges. Almost all of that was too far gone or had tiny cracks. Cut out a block that I thought was turnable and stuck it on the lathe. Got a shape that I was satisfied with and was getting ready to hollow when I noticed another hairline crack along one side. Took off at least another inch in diameter and a couple in height. Not as happy with the form now and these are only cell phone pics but thought you might be interested.
2012-01-18_15-49-23_941.jpg2012-01-18_15-50-18_900.jpg2012-01-18_15-50-35_409.jpg
Its soft in places though tearout was only bad at the spot you can see in the first picture. That may be more of a problem when it dries out. If I was to try soaking it in diluted white glue for a couple of days, at what point do you do that? Do you partly or completely dry it first?
Thoughts or suggestions welcome as always!

[Harry Robinette]

Baxter
I've never done the glue thing myself but I sure hope what ever you try it works. Thats a beautiful piece of wood and I like the shape,are you going to try to make the bottom smaller "?" or just leave well enough alone. Couldn't blame you if you just left it.

[Kathy Marshall]

Looks good so far! The form looks good to me, and I think once you've got some finish on it, it will look even better.

[Richard Jones]

Baxter,

The soak thing is beyond my pay grade, but that is a beautiful form. If you can't fix the crack and can't hide it, enhance it!!!

Keep us posted on the progress.

[Jim Burr]

Oh yeah...that'll look cool when done! Like Richard suggested, if the cracks persist add some espresso powder, Pearl Ex, metal oxide...almost limitless!

[Hayes Rutherford]

Why not just finish it as planned but apply some tape or shrink wrap to the outside for safety. Before finishing, apply a couple of "butterfly" patches across the crack.

[Baxter Smith]

Baxter
I've never done the glue thing myself but I sure hope what ever you try it works. Thats a beautiful piece of wood and I like the shape,are you going to try to make the bottom smaller "?" or just leave well enough alone. Couldn't blame you if you just left it.

The bottom will end up smaller and deeper than shown Harry. It has to be returned so I didn't want to take off too much and lose the solid hold if I should try and finish turn it without my steadyrest. I may remount it between centers and reduce the size of the tenon I held it with. I have only used diluted white glue on some dried spalted maple bowls and soaked it in by brushing it on. It didn't penetrate deeply enough to do any good when I got down to the cuts that mattered. Ended up using shellac too. When I was thinking about trying the soak yesterday, it seemed kind of foolish to dry this for a year, then soak it, and dry it for another year. Since it is wet now, I didn't think it would absorb much glue.

Baxter,

The soak thing is beyond my pay grade, but that is a beautiful form. If you can't fix the crack and can't hide it, enhance it!!!

Keep us posted on the progress.

Thanks Richard. There is no crack...at the moment! I had turned it down to about 11 x 7 and thought I was good. When I checked it without the trifocals, I could see hairline crack in the shoulder so it ended up closer to 9 x 6.

Oh yeah...that'll look cool when done! Like Richard suggested, if the cracks persist add some espresso powder, Pearl Ex, metal oxide...almost limitless!

With the way beech cracks, I didn't want to start with one Jim. Doesn't mean I won't end with one though!

[Bob Haverstock]

Baxter,
Sometimes the hairline cracks grow to become big cracks. Often times, I use a slow dry epoxy with a bit of dark color to fill and hold the crack in its present condition. I usually take severall minuted to fill and refill tne crack, I want as much glue penetration as I can get and I want the crack to be full when the glue is set up.

I have played some with the flowing style foot that you show in your photos, I happen to like it. I have incorporated it into one of my egg / box forms. I may at some point use a groove or bead to add seperation or detail.

You are doing well, continue to push your personnal skill envelope.

Bob Haverstock

[Steve Braman]

If you think that is bad tearout, I have a thing or two to teach you. I wish my spalted/too spalted/punky ash would cut that smooth. I find the best way for me to make it smooth is in the fire pit.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Baxter that is going to be a nice one. I would have did as you did and soak it now rather than wait.

[Curt Fuller]

That's going to be a beautiful HF. I think Wally is the resident expert on the white glue soak so hopefully he'll reply. But I would guess that doing the soaking while the wood is still fairly green and wet would be the way to go. If you waited too long you'd be trying to undo the damage that the soaking was intended to prevent.

[Wally Dickerman]

Baxter, I believe that I'm the originator of the glue soak. Been doing it for years. Not often and not always completely successful. I do it only when I think that the wood quality is worth a try.

White glue (only because it's cheaper than yellow glue) isn't that expensive at a big box store. I mix it 50/50 with water. A high percentage of white glue is water already. I rough turn the piece with some warping in mind. If it's an end grain HF there won't be much. I do the soak for around 24 hours. I'm sure that a little more would be okay. I let the piece dry for a week or two at least before remounting to finish. Depends on how dry it was before the soak.

A real plus when doing this is that quite often small cracks disappear. The wood swells and you're soaking in glue.

I've found that the glue soak does sometimes affect the finish a bit.

I store the left over glue in a plastic jug for the next time. OJ or clorox or whatever.....Give it a try.

[charlie knighton]

nice form, nice wood, let us know how the glue solution works

[Baxter Smith]

Baxter,
Sometimes the hairline cracks grow to become big cracks. Often times, I use a slow dry epoxy with a bit of dark color to fill and hold the crack in its present condition. I usually take severall minuted to fill and refill tne crack, I want as much glue penetration as I can get and I want the crack to be full when the glue is set up.........

Thanks Bob, I shall have to remember that. No crack left at the moment. It seemed to be along a growth ring and was more of a thin CA glue type crack. Thought it would be best just to get rid of it since the form was still fairly large.

If you think that is bad tearout, I have a thing or two to teach you. ......

I have turned some birch and maple that was worse than this one. By the time it has dried, it always seems to be worse than I remember it being!

Baxter, I believe that I'm the originator of the glue soak. Been doing it for years. Not often and not always completely successful. I do it only when I think that the wood quality is worth a try.

White glue (only because it's cheaper than yellow glue) isn't that expensive at a big box store. I mix it 50/50 with water. A high percentage of white glue is water already. I rough turn the piece with some warping in mind. If it's an end grain HF there won't be much. I do the soak for around 24 hours. I'm sure that a little more would be okay. I let the piece dry for a week or two at least before remounting to finish. Depends on how dry it was before the soak.

A real plus when doing this is that quite often small cracks disappear. The wood swells and you're soaking in glue.

I've found that the glue soak does sometimes affect the finish a bit.

I store the left over glue in a plastic jug for the next time. OJ or clorox or whatever.....Give it a try.

Thanks Wally, I appreciate the insight. I have plenty of the white glue left over from when I tried brushing it on before. The bowl roughouts were completely dry though. I had hoped to return this one when it was completely dry and add a finial. Its only about 6" in diameter now with a wall thickness of a little under 3/4". It would have been interesting to soak and see what would have happened to the hairline crack and punky wood when it was closer to 8". I am tempted stick it back on the lathe and turn it to about 3/8". Soak it in glue for a couple of days, give it a few weeks to dry, then finish turn it. Decisions decisions!. Wish I knew the right one!

Thanks again for all the suggestions!

[Baxter Smith]

I gave it a go following Wally's advice. Put it back in the chuck to take off the anchorseal, a little more from the top and then extended the bottom a bit to more closely match the original hollowing inside close to the bottom. Hollowed the whole thing down to a little less than 3/8.
2012-01-19_15-14-34_900.jpg
Found that I had not turned away all the cracks. I suppose they were appearing because it was drying out a bit. Just above the black zone line.
2012-01-19_15-13-47_961.jpg
And this one that I thought I had completely turned away yesterday.
2012-01-19_15-13-29_614.jpg
But like I said in the title of this thread, this is just a prototype for the spalting that it would be nice to end up with.
2012-01-19_15-16-48_642.jpg
It would just slip down inside a 6" pipe. Made a quick trip to the store for 5 more bottles of glue to get it completely covered.
2012-01-19_16-27-49_431.jpg
I will let it soak though the weekend, then give it a couple of weeks to dry out a bit before trying to hollow it the rest of the way. I won't bother to try a finial since it will still be changing its shape. If it doesn't disappear into the black hole of my roughouts, I will let you know what happens.