Purchasing as Saw, Advice Requested...

[Allan Froehlich]

Hello SMC-ers.

I have considered using my Woodcraft gift card from Christmas to buy a rip saw. I want to get a traditional western saw for rough an intermediate rip cutting. This will save me from either pulling out the jig saw or sawz-all on thicker boards. I want something that can both hold an edge and be easy to sharpen.

Woodcraft has two rip saws on their web site: a Lynx and a Putsch.

Would any of you vouch for either of these two saws?

I am not committed to buying either, but if they are worth their price I would go ahead and get one. If no, I will look elsewhere.

I already own a variety of Japanese pull saws, dovetail saws and other metal-backed saws. I want to get a traditional western saw for rough an intermediate rip cutting. This will save me from either pulling out the jig saw or sawz-all on thicker boards. I also have a pair of 120+ year old rip and cross cut saws, but they are in very poor condition at this time and I am not interested in resoring them right now.

On a side note, I have played with the idea of making my own saw. I work at a tool and mold shop as a tool designer. The tool makers have expressed strong interest in getting me out on the floor to work the machinery so that I can get a better understanding of what they are working with. We only work with a few types of metal, so I do not know what would work for a saw blade. If you know this, please chime in too.

Thank you,
-Allan

[Jamie Bacon]

I have not personally used either of the saws you mentioned but from what I've read, Lynx makes a decent saw, albeit with a blocky, uncomfortable handle. To me, a comfortable handle is what sets most decent quality saws apart. The handle can always be reshaped or you can make a new one to fit your hand better.

As for making a saw from scratch, the steel you would use for the saw plate is 1095 spring steel, around .043" thick for the type of sawing you say you want it to do. Not trying to sway you one way or another, but saw making is a blast. I've made a few and wrote about it on my blog, www.planeshavings.blogspot.com. Since you have access to a machine shop and people willing to help you, you may want to give that a try also. Lots of knowledge on this forum and people are happy to answer your questions.

As a side note, I envy your access to a professional machine shop. That sure would make my little tool making ventures easier.

[Jack Curtis]

...I already own a variety of Japanese pull saws, dovetail saws and other metal-backed saws. I want to get a traditional western saw for rough an intermediate rip cutting. This will save me from either pulling out the jig saw or sawz-all on thicker boards....

Not to be a kill joy, but I do all my rough and intermediate rip cutting with Japanese kataba (one sided, in this case rip, various sizes), no problems, and much easier to use than my big western panel saws.

[Mark Baldwin III]

Just my .02 cents...those old saws may very well perform better than the new Pax saws at WC. Since you're in Milwaukee, I imagine we shop at the same WC store, and I'd hate to steer you away from spending your money there, because they're a nice group of people. Though, since you said you had a gift card, there's a thousand other ways to spend it!
I've restored ten or so old saws, though none of them are "perfect" they perform very well. I get a great sense of satisfaction from using them. Blah blah blah...pride in ownership...and all that jazz.

[Mike Holbrook]

I have heard that Mike Wenzloff has worked through some of his issues. You could give Mike a call, he is usually very helpful with new sawyers wanting to build their own. Chris has a recent post on buying the parts to make a new backsaw from Mike. I made a Half-Back from one of Mike's kits recently. Gramercy also has some kits but I don't think they make panel or hand saw kits. I agree that there are much better saws available as kits or restores. I would have no trouble finding things to buy with that gift card.

The old saws usually have saw plates that are hard to find in this day & time. I just bought a backsaw that turned out to belong to one of my fellow SMC posters. Be careful that route is a slippery slope though.

[Chris Griggs]

I made a Half-Back from one of Mike's kits recently.

Ummmm, I don't recall seeing a post about this? Did i miss it? No pics, didn't happen....


Regarding the OP. What I have been told about the lynx saws (by a Woodcraft employee) is that, they are decent as is but for a really good sawing experience..... you will want to reshape the handle, and that they have WAY too much set so you will want stone a good deal of it out.



EDIT: Nevermind Mike, I just found one of those links you posted to your flickr page, and viewed a pic of the half-back. NICE!

[Jim Matthews]

Your handsaw choices at Woodcraft are limited.
$80 for an average quality saw isn't a great value.

If you work by hand, the Iwasaki carving files may be a better value.


The Disston D-23 was made in large numbers, of good steel and can be found for not much money.
FYI - The Sandvik saws in my shop are amazing when they're sharp, but the steel is very hard (which makes sharpening slow) and the handles aren't for everyone.
I wouldn't spend more than $25 on a saw that needs sharpening. A well - sharpened saw can be a wonder, and a good value at $80.

jim
wpt, ma

[Mike Holbrook]

I forgot about Woodcraft carrying the Iwasaki files, I love mine, if you don't have any that is also what I would recomend. With those files you can make handles for ever how many saw plates you care to venture into.They are great for making wooden planes as well...

[Pat Zabrocki]

I realize you commented that you are not interested in restoring your old saws. However, if you make a saw, you will have to sharpen it so you may want to practice on those. You could also buy and older saw that may be in better condition than those if your saws require a lot more effort than just sharpening.

Ultimately, I think you can do much better with an old saw for $80 than you can a new one, unless you buy a blade from Mike and make your own handle (which would be great fun). On a side note, I'm curious why rip first and not crosscut. I like my neander ways, but ripping on a large scale is a..... gym membership.
cheers
pat

[Mike Holbrook]

I am having trouble deciding whether I like restoring old tools or building them from scratch better. Recently I have been on a old tool and restoration kick in an attempt to garner more time for making a bench. As a matter of fact I believe I just bought a saw just yesterday from the poster who posted above me that I think may be ready to use. Maybe I am catching up with Chris. She is a 16" "Bettles" believe it or not.

I know I posted this somewhere but since certain people are doubting the veracity of my claim regarding actually building a saw:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/1689105...in/photostream

Yes, those purple things in the rear of the picture are my Purple Heart planes made from Steve Knights left over parts. Looks like I am going to need a plane iron or two to finish them up though as the irons I have are too short.

[Jim Koepke]

On a side note, I have played with the idea of making my own saw. I work at a tool and mold shop as a tool designer. The tool makers have expressed strong interest in getting me out on the floor to work the machinery so that I can get a better understanding of what they are working with.

This seems like a great opportunity to learn about what your co-workers have to do when turning your designs into tools. You will likely learn a few ways to improve your work and make things go better for the shop folks. You could also make some long time friends if you find out before ordering material if others would also like to be in on a saw making project.

Another poster mentioned using your old saws for sharpening practice. This sounds like a good idea to me if the old saws are not in too bad of shape.

jtk

[David Weaver]

Piling on - buy an old american pattern saw (like a Disston D8 or something of that sort) for ripping, one that's in good shape, and spend the woodcraft money on something like the iwasaki files or some sort of supplies that you like to buy in general (whatever that may be, epoxy, finishing supplies, whatever...)

If you want to go with a more classic pattern, a disston #7 is a nice place to start, as could be some older saws that often go for a little less like Spear and Jackson (if they don't look old, they're not old, S&J stuck with a classic look for a long time) or sorby or something.

Whatever, any of them are probably going to be saws that were made when just about everything was good, and variations in that level of tools were in marketing and tastes, and not in quality.

It's always like jumping off the high dive a little to find a good old american or english saw to touch up and put in service (or have someone touch up), but you're left with more in the end. Key items that you want when you're a beginner:
* no missing teeth
* no severely misshapen teeth
* a relatively straight saw plate, as straight as possible and absolutely no kinks
* no bad pitting near the tooth line
* a handle that's not cracked up or with badly substituted hardware
* a saw that has as much of its plate (that it started out with) as possible

There's not a great need with as much information as is out there (to guide you through touching up an otherwise good saw and removing minor surface rust, etc) to have all of the choices be high priced turn-key or moderate priced mediocrity.

Especially with a rip saw - the teeth don't get a lot larger than that (easy to see, and not many of them) and they are generally filed straight across. It's hard to make one work poorly if you follow just a couple of basic rules.

[David Weaver]

By the way, put off the scratch saw making for now - it's likely you can find an old saw that will be better than anything you can make for less than it would cost you to buy the materials (and things like making a handle from scratch and cutting the slot in it are best saved for a time after you've gotten bored with restoring old saws or keeping yours in top shape).

[Allan Froehlich]

Thank you for this great advice.

I'll expand on the two saws that I have:
I really don't know what they are, but one might be a Disston. Both saws are covered in rust and the metal has some pitting. A few teeth are missing and the rest need some tooth-planing. One of them has a slight kink in it. Both have spent pretty much the last 90 years hanging on a wall in a garage. Supposedly, my great-great grandfather owned them (the last person in the family who might have known how to use it, as my uncle told me).

Now, about the saw project:
My thought is that I will build a small die set for cutting the teeth. I will make it so that I can use an arbor press, slide hammer or mallet to operate it.
This will not be an immediate project.


Now, about that Woodcraft card...
Are there any reccomended saw sharpening files and setting tools available from Woodcraft?

I'm probably going to use part of it today to purchase Chrisopher Schwarts' workbench book.