More bench vise discussion on newer vises

[Mike Holbrook]

There certainly is the possibility of obsessing on the perfect combination of vises, not that I or anyone in this thread would do that of course. But, if we are not here to obsess on such things why are we here? Probably the main reason I am thinking about the two vises I am at the moment has more to do with ease of use. QR vises are, after all, quick at clamping and relatively quick to install in my bench design.

[Derek Cohen]

There is an alternative to a QR vise. You could use a very coarse screw that opens and closes rapidly. I shall be building a leg vise with a wooden screw, something in the range of 3 tpi. I would also estimate that about 90% of the work done by a face vise is holding boards to work on the edges. The range of an edge is probably 1/4" - 4", with 90% of this between 1/2" and 3/4". Based on this, there is not much extension needed by the face vise. Indeed, it is possible to have one setting with a leg vise and not have to alter it.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Keller NC]

Waiting to see someone build in this parallel guide with pin and rollers for a QR vise where the outside chop area is used...

(the normal approach with spacers seems to be keeping them on a string and dropping them in as needed)

Matt

There are many clever solutions to the spacer block need. One of the most innovative I've seen was Garret Hack's idea - he built a dovetailed piece into the end of the outside chop of the face vise, where the part of the piece that faces the inner jaws was sloped. One then just taps the piece in or out to get the required spacing. Presto - no loose pieces to find, and no hanging things to irritate.

[Mike Holbrook]

First thanks Rob for your assurances, certainly Lee Valley's reputation is legend with the posters on these pages. I have been following Derek's bench post and appreciate his comments too. As Derek says since I plan to use my face vise largely for working the edge of boards, with the assistance of a sliding deadman and several Veritas devices for securing pieces to the deadman/edge/leg of the bench, there should not be a pressing need for more capacity in either direction for this vise. This is actually the reason I started considering Veritas' new QR vs a leg vise.

Still I want to optimize the use of this vise as much as possible without risking damage to it. It had occurred to me that extending the vise chop disproportionately on either side might leverage the work piece against the QR mechanism. I just had/have no idea how severe this issue might be and how much worse it might get the further out the chop goes. Assuming I use the Veritas QR vise in the mentioned spot on my bench I do have to figure out the best way to design the outside jaw. Another thing I like about this idea is the instructions say I can use my nice thick bench edge as the vises inside jaw, no apron to build or be in the way. My particular bench design has enough top space outside the frame and leg to install the vise under the top, leaving both the bench legs free for clamping work to.

The position my bench will occupy in my shop will not leave much space for maneuvering, particularly at the side the face/leg vise will reside on. I will have the most space on the end of the bench, near my other bench and a wall full of bench tools. The main reason I am thinking of putting a twin screw or Hovarter vise there is a shop space/location consideration. As in Derek's case, part of my decision criterion has to do with the specific lay out of my shop. I am concerned about a leg vise on the other position on my bench, being an obstruction to the specific work space. I am also concerned about wood screws in my shop because it is underground, surrounded by concrete walls. There is plumbing & two kitchen sinks above where the leg/QR vise will reside.

The difficult thing about many of these discussions, particularly vises and their use, is the design of the particular bench and shop where the vise will be used has to be understood for the discussion to follow applicable paths.

[Gary Curtis]

About woodworking being around a long time, so everything worthwhile has been accepted. Well, in manufacturing/industry there are innumerable ways things are positioned or clamped — things barely explored in woodworking.

For starters, air clamps. The OP on this thread says he wants speed of clamping, quick release, ease of clearance. Well, little pneumatic cylinders offer all that. All you need is an air compressor. The same for Vacuum cylinders. I worked in aviation (DC-8, 747) and so many contraption on a plane are actuated by air pressure or vacuum. First and foremost, you can't argue with the speed.

A simple foot pedal or throw lever would get things in motion.

[Mike Holbrook]

Two very simple inexpensive ways to secure work to a bench are also wandering around in my head.

Screw Vise for edge clamping

There is a another vise option I am thinking about. I have a Veritas Tail Vise Screw. I don't think I need a tail vise for holding pieces to the top of the bench. But, what if I attach a movable crochet, simple hook or chop with dogs to the side of the bench using the tail vise screw? Simple dog holes in the side of a chop might be all I would need and they are not in the way at all until they are needed and a dog added? The devise would only need to move enough to tighten items against another work stop, a normal Crochet obviously does not move at all. My main problem with a crochet is the lack of a way to tighten items up against it. My problem with most screw vises is they are a pain to adjust over long distances. Would marrying the two eliminate the problems each suffers from individually?

Since the vise I need will mostly clamp boards for edge jointing it would seem dog holes: on the side/edge of the bench, both legs, and on a sliding deadman will give me lots of places to rest objects a screw vise could apply pressure to? With my: Gramercy Holdfasts, Veritas Hold Down, Veritas Surface Clamp, and Veriats Wonder Dog my bench would have quite a few options for clamping items to the side of the bench. I think a good case could be made for not using a vise at all. Crochets are often used without any vise. I imagine that as long as one is planing toward the Crochet there is no pressing need to clamp the board? If my bench has a tail vise that assists in actually clamping objects between a crochet and dogs or between dogs wouldn't it be ahead of the game?

Bench Anchor

Veritas also makes a Bench Anchor. All this is, is a board with short dog like objects that can be attached and held it in place in dog holes in the bench top. In his DVD on making and improving workbenches Schwarz demonstrates what I think is an even better anchor/stop. Schwarz's anchor is a simplified bench hook. The board on top of the bench is nothing more than a thin work stop that can be secured anywhere along the bench top with clamps or holdfasts. Combined with a properly sized board, in the Hovarter on the end of my bench, this device would provide a way to "clamp" almost any piece needing surface work to the top of the bench. Since the work piece would be held in place by two boards without any pressure being applied there is no danger of warping the work piece via vise pressure. With one of these work stops, some clamps and a split top bench one might not even need dogs in the top of the bench.