Best Honing Guide?

[Mike Holbrook]

I have been fighting the idea of a guide. I found that the guide arm on my Tormek tended to move/bend enough to throw the whole thing off. The old Veritas guide I have has no way to register the side of a chisel or plane blade against something to make sure it is straight. I have been trying to do it all by hand, but I think a guide might help.

The Veritas MKII Honing Guide is obviously much easier to set a chisel or plane blade up in and the camber roller looks like it might enable me to get the consistent cambers I want. Is this the best answer for consistent results? I did some searching and found a positive comment about cambering with it from Derek Cohen which is about all the encouragement I need, but the post was on the MKII. Is there something better? Ok other than raw skill and persistence. I should add I have very good stones from Tools From Japan- 120, 700, 3000, 6000, 10000.

[Curt Putnam]

IMO, the MKII is the best you are going to do. Don't forget the advantage of the skew registration jig, too.

[Zach England]

MKII is great for plane irons, but not so great for chisels. It does not properly clamp narrow-ish chisels. I use the good old "eclipse" for chisels, but I have modified at per the instructions here:

[Archie England]

I recommend you make the transition to freehand! I'm using the Veritas mkii far less now. I did this because my quality stones from TFJ made this easier to accomplish. Yes, I still use my Tormek to set difficult bevels; but even this need is dimishing!

[Zach England]

Long lost brothers?

[Russ Massery]

I use my Veritas MKII Honing Guide for plane iron as well as chisels all the way down to 1/8". With the narrow chisel or with any chisel for that matter. You must clamp down evenly. Tightening the clamp screws a little on each side at a time. I really like the guide I highly recommend it.

[Mike Holbrook]

I have been a little overwhelmed with sharpening chores, four new planes with a bunch of left over 1/4" 01 plane blades from Steve Knight's retirement. Unfortunately I think most of the blades I got from Steve are going to be too short for the planes I built, especially after grinding their very rough edges out.. I have a couple Veritas plane blades I am still trying to fix that got bad bevels on my Tormek jig. I have been trying to redo bevels on my 2" beltsander and or my coarser stones but it still is slow work. The Tormek hollow ground bevels are hard to rework using flat stones or a beltsander as the edges have to come down before even getting back to square one.

Archie I think it is easier in one respect to do this work freehand as it is easier to adjust as I go. On the other hand, it is a bunch of grinding to do by hand. I may just buy a few new plane blades for the new planes I made (new post I guess). I can't actually finish those planes until I have blades to fit wedges and adjustable mouths to. I need those planes for projects. I think my thoughts ran along the line of hoping a guide would at least assure I get something that works. The Tormek, so far, has just made things worse when I try to grind bevels on it. I have no jig for my beltsander. I have been trying to figure out if the Veritas grinding jig or some other rest would help with it. It is hard to feel what a flexing belt is doing to the bevel, although it surely does the opposite of the Tormek.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Not having used a Tormek, I can't comment, but the one I looked at seemed sturdy enough - are you "letting the tool do the work" or applying pressure to try and make it go faster?

I'd see if you could borrow or use a dry grinder - it would make a setting the initial bevel a quick job. If I were closer you, I would have gladly offered mine or my services.

[Archie England]

Not having used a Tormek, I can't comment, but the one I looked at seemed sturdy enough - are you "letting the tool do the work" or applying pressure to try and make it go faster?

I'd see if you could borrow or use a dry grinder - it would make a setting the initial bevel a quick job. If I were closer you, I would have gladly offered mine or my services.

What about a slow speed grinder to do the heavy removal?

OTOH, I've bought the Sigma Power 120 and a King Deluxe 300 (before the Sig 400 or Gesshin 400 came out) to do heavy metal removing on blade backs. The 120 works very well on bevels and approximates the total set up and grinding time of my T2000. However, free hand grinding to specific degree is beyond my present skill set. But, the freedom of doing it by hand really helps maintain the wear on my stones. The Sig 120 is smallish so the Veritas jig won't work so well. The King 300 is not as fast as the Sigma power 120, but it's quite efficient, being far faster than the Shapton 120 or the Chosera 400 (which are about equal in speed, though the Cho finish is better). As we all know, the less metal edge on puts on a stone, the faster the stone cuts the metal (hence, why hollow grinding is so popular). The Sigma 120 is nearly the speed of grinding out the entire bevel as if it was hollow ground.

I didn't like my results from sandpaper (though I'll agree I did achieve some levels of sharpness), so going back to my scary sharp set up is not an option. Also, I've compared the speed and results of DMT 325 to my 300 and 400 waterstones (plus my coarse India and Ark. stones, too) and found (IMO) the waterstones to be faster, better prepped edges--with far superior scratch patterns. Did I mention how much faster the waterstones were?!

One last word here, and it's actually gleaned from my friend, Orlando--different blades (of even the same set) can actually sharpen differently on the same stones, causing us to search for that "better, other" stone to use. With waterstones, there's probably no single, best stone--just stones better at specific sharpening aspects.

2 cents worth, hopefully,

Archie
near NOLA

[Chris Vandiver]

I have been a little overwhelmed with sharpening chores, four new planes with a bunch of left over 1/4" 01 plane blades from Steve Knight's retirement. Unfortunately I think most of the blades I got from Steve are going to be too short for the planes I built, especially after grinding their very rough edges out.. I have a couple Veritas plane blades I am still trying to fix that got bad bevels on my Tormek jig. I have been trying to redo bevels on my 2" beltsander and or my coarser stones but it still is slow work. The Tormek hollow ground bevels are hard to rework using flat stones or a beltsander as the edges have to come down before even getting back to square one.

Archie I think it is easier in one respect to do this work freehand as it is easier to adjust as I go. On the other hand, it is a bunch of grinding to do by hand. I may just buy a few new plane blades for the new planes I made (new post I guess). I can't actually finish those planes until I have blades to fit wedges and adjustable mouths to. I need those planes for projects. I think my thoughts ran along the line of hoping a guide would at least assure I get something that works. The Tormek, so far, has just made things worse when I try to grind bevels on it. I have no jig for my beltsander. I have been trying to figure out if the Veritas grinding jig or some other rest would help with it. It is hard to feel what a flexing belt is doing to the bevel, although it surely does the opposite of the Tormek.

Mike, If I may, a word of advice. Go to Lie Nielsen's website and find the link to their facebook page and check out their sharpening videos. Their method of preparing and sharpening edge tools is very easy for beggining woodworkers. Postive and predictable from this system. You could also try Highland Hardware and see if they offer a sharpening class.

It sounds to me like you may need to learn the basics of sharpening. No tool will just do the job for you, some skill is required. Get some sharpening knowledge(reading, videos, etc.)and then use that knowledge to gain the skill of sharpening. It is easy to create a certain bevel angle or an edge that is square to the blade or a flat back, as long as you have the skill to do so. Knowledge first, then practice makes perfect. Once you have the ability to easily create a sharp plane iron or chisel, your woodworking will take off.

By the way, do you own modern iron plane, like a Lie Nielsen or a Veritas? That option is a very good starting point(as long as you can create a sharp edge).

[Mike Holbrook]

I have the Sigma Power 120, and have been using it lately. I also have the big coarse Green King stone. My beltsander with Trizact and or Gator belts is much faster than the 120 or the Tormek, all I have to do is get good enough to make great bevels freehand with it or find/make some jig to position the blades. The Trizact and the Gator belts are very slow to heat up the steel. I am in the process of figuring out which beltsander belts to use before the Sigma 120 and Sigma Power 3F Carbon #700. Although the beltsander leaves a much smoother surface. Then I go to Sigma Power Select II 3000, 6000, 10000. Reading Stu's descriptions it looks like I might need a bridge stone to the Select II's, specifically the Sigma Power#400. Maybe I will ask Stu about that one.

Orlando was my stone consultant as well Archie. The 120 does leave a surface that needs something to prepare it for the Select II's and I'm not sure the 3F 700 is the right stone. It might be that I could go from the belts to a Select II #240 or the 3F #700.

I took a sharpening Class at Woodcraft. I own a Veritas LA Jack, LA Block, Record Jointer & Smoother & a Garret Wade Jack. I can sharpen a blade with a good bevel fine. My big problem is 1/4" plane blades with bevels beyond what I think most people ever see in terms of roughness. I can put an edge on a S30V or S35VN pocket knife,by hand, that will flick individual hairs off my arm, so I'm not totally incompetent ;-).

[Mike Holbrook]

The "Raw" plane blades I have been working:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16891057@N05/6753289233/

Raw blade beside one that has been worked a good while on my sander:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1689105...ream/lightbox/

I think I am getting there, for hand work. Obviously these blades have concave as well as very rough bevels. I have an even dozen of those raw blades I am working, plus a couple Veritas A2 blades I got out of whack on the Tormeck quite a while back. I have multiple blades for the Veritas planes and I am just getting around to fixing the ones I screwed up.

This may be a "larger"problem though. These are the two longest blades I have for these planes:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/1689105...ream/lightbox/

[Michael Ray Smith]

I have a Work Sharp 3000 that I use for chisels. For planes and spokeshaves and such, I have three guides -- an Eclipse style, a Richard Kell guide, and a Veritas guide. I also have the Veritas holder for very short blades (mostly spokeshaves). And I sometimes make my own jigs for unusual things such as the blades for Miller Falls no. 1 spokeshaves. Then, finally, I sometimes do things freehand. I also use different abrasives -- most often sandpaper on a granite plate, but some DMT products and Arkansas stones. Every now and then I use a belt sander, but I usually end up butchering things when I do, maybe because I don't have any sort of jig or tool rest. Of all the stuff I've read about sharpening tools, the best single piece of advice was, "Learn more than one way."

[Mike Holbrook]

I hear you Michael. I have King Stones, Sigma Power Stones, Tormeck, bench sander that takes 1 & 2" x 42" belts, granite stone with wet/dry paper. I have a collection of long Scythe blade stones and a myriad of diamond & ceramic stones & guides for knives. I have a steel plate that uses grit and an assortment of grits. I have two old sharpening guides too. I use many of them fairly regularly, so I think I have a variety of options that I am becoming practiced with. I have thought about getting a Work Sharp 3000, have read a good deal on them and looked at them several times at Highland Hardware/Woodworking. The beltsander is a much more versatile tool in my environment though so I stocked up on belts for it instead. The beltsander is better for grinding knives, mower blades, tools, wood parts... It gets lots of use. If I could just figure out a better tool rest for it.

MY concept for using the Veritas MKII is a little different..
It seems to me that once one starts to get a new bevel established it is fairly easy to keep sharpening at that angle. The hardest part for me when trying to establish a new bevel by hand is getting that initial angle started correctly. I was thinking the Veritas MK II might help me get the correct bevel started, then I might switch back to freehand work to do the major lifting, maybe going back to the MK II to check progress & at the end to do a micro bevel and or camber. Sort of a freehand work marker, checker and corrector. Does anyone else use this tool in that way?

[Tony Zaffuto]

Why don't you take a look at LV's Veritas grinding jig and rest, to see if you could adapt it to the belt sander?