No Two Snowflakes Alike?

[Dan Hintz]

Yeppers... chaos theory just says given an infinite number of variables and/or infinite number of values chosen at random, the chances of two items being identical are increasingly small. It doesn't say never, just that the chances approach zero.

Crystallized ice does not have an infinite number of parameters, and the values for those parameters are somewhat finite. It can only grow in temps below 32F and some lower limit (don't know what it is, but this is Earth, so well above absolute zero ), nucleation site needs to be within a reasonable size limit, finite number of atoms per crystal size, yadda yadda yadda.

It's highly likely that a crystal has been created identical to another at some point within the timespan of the Earth... but finding it is like a needle in a haystack. Which brings us to a whole other search...

[Jim Rimmer]

Yeppers... chaos theory just says given an infinite number of variables and/or infinite number of values chosen at random, the chances of two items being identical are increasingly small. It doesn't say never, just that the chances approach zero.

Crystallized ice does not have an infinite number of parameters, and the values for those parameters are somewhat finite. It can only grow in temps below 32F and some lower limit (don't know what it is, but this is Earth, so well above absolute zero ), nucleation site needs to be within a reasonable size limit, finite number of atoms per crystal size, yadda yadda yadda.

It's highly likely that a crystal has been created identical to another at some point within the timespan of the Earth... but finding it is like a needle in a haystack. Which brings us to a whole other search...

Allow me to try to translate what Dan said: If an infinite number of rednecks riding in the back of an infinite number of pick up trucks fire their shotguns at an infinite number of highway signs, it is likely they will eventually spell out the works of Shakespeare in Braille.

[Moses Yoder]

Yeppers... chaos theory just says given an infinite number of variables and/or infinite number of values chosen at random, the chances of two items being identical are increasingly small. It doesn't say never, just that the chances approach zero.

Crystallized ice does not have an infinite number of parameters, and the values for those parameters are somewhat finite. It can only grow in temps below 32F and some lower limit (don't know what it is, but this is Earth, so well above absolute zero ), nucleation site needs to be within a reasonable size limit, finite number of atoms per crystal size, yadda yadda yadda.

It's highly likely that a crystal has been created identical to another at some point within the timespan of the Earth... but finding it is like a needle in a haystack. Which brings us to a whole other search...

While I agree with your theory in principle, the fact is we will never even come close to having an infinite number of snowflakes fall to the earth in it's history.

[Belinda Barfield]

Allow me to try to translate what Dan said: If an infinite number of rednecks riding in the back of an infinite number of pick up trucks fire their shotguns at an infinite number of highway signs, it is likely they will eventually spell out the works of Shakespeare in Braille.

You left out "drunk" Jim. Trust me, I know an infinite number of rednecks and we've never been able to do this sober.

[Wil Limanen]

You left out "drunk" Jim. Trust me, I know an infinite number of rednecks and we've never been able to do this sober.

You mean infinite number of beers.

Wil

[John Coloccia]

It's highly likely that a crystal has been created identical to another at some point within the timespan of the Earth... but finding it is like a needle in a haystack. Which brings us to a whole other search...

Actually, for snowflake sized crystals I believe the chances are still vanishingly small even given the entire age of the Universe as a backdrop. It's not zero, but only just.

[Dan Hintz]

Crystallized ice does not have an infinite number of parameters, and the values for those parameters are somewhat finite.

While I agree with your theory in principle, the fact is we will never even come close to having an infinite number of snowflakes fall to the earth in it's history.

As I said...

[Jeff Bratt]

Depends on your definition of snowflake and alike
http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/alike/alike.htm

It's highly likely that a crystal has been created identical to another at some point within the timespan of the Earth... but finding it is like a needle in a haystack. Which brings us to a whole other search...

Even with just a few parameters, it is highly UN-likely that two snowflakes have ever been - or ever will be - exactly the same. However, examining all of them will never happen (think of all the ones we've missed!), but that doesn't make the assertion any less true.

Really big numbers are beyond common sense, our intuition fails us at such scales. And infinities (yes, there's more than one) are even further "out there", they are pure mathematical concepts that don't really exist.