Hand plane learning, questions

[Jim Rimmer]

if you intend to be a tool user, rather than tool repairman - buy new.
If you only want to buy once, buy the best you can afford. Second hand Lie Nielsen planes are my recommendation,

A good recommendation but contradictory?

[Jim Matthews]

It does sound contradictory; both my remaining metal planes are second hand Lie-Nielsen (BU jointer and 4 1/2 smoother).
I got to try them out prior to purchase, and they were already running well.

My point is that rehabilitating older, less expensive handplanes can be a lengthy, costly and unsatisfactory endeavor.
I'm all about picking up a tool and putting it to wood - not tinkering.

New tools from Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley and other top flight makers work right out of the box.
I won't waste another hour of shop time trying to get a tool working properly - it's ready or it GOES.

[Sean Hughto]

My point is that rehabilitating older, less expensive handplanes can be a lengthy, costly and unsatisfactory endeavor.

I don't say this because I think I can change your mind, JIm, but becasue I think anyone reading along that is new to planes should know that at least one woodworker has another perspective. Assuming that you don't buy a broken up rust bucket, pre-WW2 vintage planes are perfectly capable, and should not require anything more than a blade sharpening to work fine. I'm talkiing about standard ubiquitous bench planes like 3, 4, 5, and 7 models. Good clean examples of the smoothers and jacks can be had for $30 to $50 all over the place, including eBay. The jointer might cost $70 to $100 for a good clean user. Any fettling that one does to such planes other than cleaning off dirt and adding a touch of oil here and there is often more aesthetic than anything else - e.g., thje jappaning doesn't do the work, etc. For straight forward planing tasks, vintage planes are often great starting points for those new to the joys of planing. I've had many come through my hands over the years. Good vitage users don't require extraordinary fettling to work. All this hyped up junk about flattening soles for hours and such, is just that, hype.

[Zach Dillinger]

I don't say this because I think I can change your mind, JIm, but becasue I think anyone reading along that is new to planes should know that at least one woodworker has another perspective. Assuming that you don't buy a broken up rust bucket, pre-WW2 vintage planes are perfectly capable, and should not require anything more than a blade sharpening to work fine. I'm talkiing about standard ubiquitous bench planes like 3, 4, 5, and 7 models. Good clean examples of the smoothers and jacks can be had for $30 to $50 all over the place, including eBay. The jointer might cost $70 to $100 for a good clean user. Any fettling that one does to such planes other than cleaning off dirt and adding a touch of oil here and there is often more aesthetic than anything else - e.g., thje jappaning doesn't do the work, etc. For straight forward planing tasks, vintage planes are often great starting points for those new to the joys of planing. I've had many come through my hands over the years. Good vitage users don't require extraordinary fettling to work. All this hyped up junk about flattening soles for hours and such, is just that, hype.

Well said! Vintage planes are so common that there is no real need to buy one that needs a ton of fettling. That's one of the reasons I prefer wooden planes. If I find one that I can't live without, tuneup is ridiculously easy.

[Mike Holbrook]

Rick,

I think, were I starting over, I would start with a book mentioned above.... Hand Tool Essentials (Refine your power tool projects with hand tool techniques). It offers very helpful articles on the major hand tools. It tells you how to care for the tools and gives you some basic projects to do, like making a saw bench, that teaches skills and provides needed furnishings for using hand tools as well. The best thing about the book, in my opinion, is the help on figuring out when and how you can use these tools for your projects. It gives you the rational for why you might want to use hand tools too.

[Prashun Patel]

Second hand LN and Veritas tools cost very close to the price of new ones. You'll go crazy looking for a deal.

My advice is to first purchase a new, high quality low angle adjustable mouth block plane from either Lie Nielsen or Veritas. A block plane is IMHO the easiest plane to learn to use. It is also relatively cheap new. If you buy a used plane or a budget plane new, it can be hit or miss; you may frustrate yourself unnecessarily.

Getting one of these two planes will show you how a good plane is supposed to feel and perform out of the box. Once you know what you're shooting for (no pun intended) it'll make your deeper ventures into that world more productive.

After you do this, I think you gotta learn how to sharpen, so pick a book that helps you learn that well.

[Mike Holbrook]

I think the OP was looking for a way to learn a little more about hand tools, especially the ones he has that he may have emotional attachment to. I think it is better to do some reading on the subject, watch a few videos and get an idea of where ones interests may be before jumping into tool purchasing. My experience is that my opinions and interests change as I learn more about the craft. Give the new guy some time to find his own path.

Sure, the posters here know about the slippery path and are eager to help steer the tool selection process but there will be plenty of time for that once our new fellow finds himself sliding down the slope, no need for "shock and awe" yet ;-).

[Rick Moyer]

I have not ventured onto this section of Sawmill Creek before as I have very little experience or knowledge with non-powered woodworking tools.
I apologize for not reading all I probably could have to maybe answer my questions from what may already be posted here. I'm not intending to convert to Neander, but I have some planes that were my father's (and grandfather's) and I wish to preserve, refurbish, and understand them better.

I guess I am mainly looking for advice on a book or other resources to help my understanding. I'm not looking for mentoring as much as some good reference material to get me started.
Thanks.

I appreciate all the comments but I think some of you may be missing the original point of my post. It may be blasphemous on this forum but I don't intend to go Neander, I merely needed some general knowledge about planes, as I really knew almost nothing about setting up or using properly. I'm not in the process of outfitting my shop with 10 or 20 planes, etc., rather I wanted to be able to clean up, sharpen and maybe use the couple that I have. I probably will get a good small block or shoulder plane though as right now I have none, so your comments are well taken. I just didn't want you all to waste too much of your time giving me advice that I might not need.
Having said that, feel free to post away, as others reading will certainly benefit from your knowleged as well!
Thanks again.

btw, there is one #7 Bailey ribbed-bottom and a #4. Also an old #45 molding plane that I'll probably just display.

[Jerome Hanby]

Sounds like we are in similar boats. Best thing I ever did to make my planes "work" was to buy a Work Sharp 3000. I ran my Simmonds block plane through the grits that come with the machine and it went from a balky tool that was pretty much impossible to use to an amazing device that worked great. I know me and I'm not going to dedicate the time and effort it would take me to get proficient enough with water stones or heck even the normal scary sharp method, but the WS3000 was quick and easy and gave me good results. I have purchased several additional glass platters and several packs of of the work Sharp packs of sanding disks that Klingspor sells. My plan is to have one glass disk for each grit, same grit top and bottom so I can work top and bottom without needing to flip the disk then move to the next grit/disk and so on...

I'm looking at getting some ceramic stones for cases where the WS3000 isn't a good options, but for all my "normal" planes and chisels...

I appreciate all the comments but I think some of you may be missing the original point of my post. It may be blasphemous on this forum but I don't intend to go Neander, I merely needed some general knowledge about planes, as I really knew almost nothing about setting up or using properly. I'm not in the process of outfitting my shop with 10 or 20 planes, etc., rather I wanted to be able to clean up, sharpen and maybe use the couple that I have. I probably will get a good small block or shoulder plane though as right now I have none, so your comments are well taken. I just didn't want you all to waste too much of your time giving me advice that I might not need.
Having said that, feel free to post away, as others reading will certainly benefit from your knowleged as well!
Thanks again.

btw, there is one #7 Bailey ribbed-bottom and a #4. Also an old #45 molding plane that I'll probably just display.

[Mike Holbrook]

Rick, many of us started with the idea of just using a few planes, I know I did. You just do not know where opening that door will lead yet though. The Hand Tools Essentials book will answer your questions on planes, there is a whole section on planes and how to use them. It also has sections on other hand tools that it simply makes sense to use in most any shop. It is a good reference guide for the use of: planes, chisels, hand saws, marking tools... the first chapter is " Hand Tools for Power Woodworkers" then Why Use Hand Tools.....

I think it will give you the best feel for where & how you might find planes and other hand tools useful without trying to make you a hand tool expert. The plane books are nice but there is a bunch of detail, history and advanced information rapped around what I think you are looking for starting out.

[Kevin Lucas]

Rick,

Here is some pretty good video on cleaning and setting up hand planes.

http://www.woodworkingonline.com/200...r-performance/

http://woodtreks.com/how-to-tune-up-a-hand-plane/19/

I'm more of the I see it and Oh that's how they did it type )

[Brian Wesley Simmons]

Second hand LN and Veritas tools cost very close to the price of new ones. You'll go crazy looking for a deal.

No kidding. I've been tracking LN and certain other planes on eBay for the last week and I keep shaking my head. Heck there is one plane on there now at a price higher than you could order it for from LN, shipping included (and it's not a commemorative model). People pretty consistently bid up prices to within $20 or $15 of the store price. If the choice is saving 5-10% buying from some guy 2000 miles away versus paying full retail from the manufacturer, I'll go with the manufacturer, just to have someone to call if there is an issue or I need some information. It's kind of fun to watch, though. And I guess it is great if you need to sell your own LN planes at some point.

Even though the OP felt many of the posts in this thread (like this one) don't address his situation, those posts are helpful to me as I am just thinking about dipping a toe in the hand tool waters. So thanks for the book and video suggestions.

bws

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

My impression on the eBay pricing of these is that it may be cheaper for some folks overseas to get a LN this way, particularly if they can get around things like VAT this way. I could be totally off base here, it's really just conjecture.

[Jim Koepke]

My impression on the eBay pricing of these is that it may be cheaper for some folks overseas to get a LN this way, particularly if they can get around things like VAT this way. I could be totally off base here, it's really just conjecture.

This is something I have also heard in the past. A new item may have to pay a higher import duty than a used item in some markets.

Some markets may not be able to acquire one in any other way than to bid on ebay.

jtk