Bowl Frustrations

[Rob Price]

I really need to find someone who can teach me how to make a bowl. I'm going off of books, DVDs, and youtube videos but can't seem to 'get it.'

I think part of my problem is I'm trying the wrong wood.

This one was a chunk of oak from a buddy who just cut down a dead oak tree. I was just starting to shape it, and was starting to really show some promise, and then a hole blew out of the side. I took this pic, tried to keep going but bigger and bigger pieces were coming off and I decided it wasn't worth the effort. The white area below the hole in the picture came apart and I was left with nearly 1/2 of the wall missing. Chopped up, I was able to get some burl/spalting for pen blanks. I think this wood was too rotten to begin with. I hindsight I could have tried to make it a platter, but it seemed like the more I cut the more it fell apart.



Same buddy gave me this burl as well from another tree he cut down (he's clearing some land). I have no idea what wood it is. Carved up a 8x4 blank and started roughing. An hour later (I really don't know what I'm doing) I noticed it started cracking up. It's next to be chopped up into pen blanks. Did I do something wrong or is the wood just too unstable?




I did manage to rough out a couple of cherry bowls from a cherry branch. They are really too small to be useful, but good practice. The little one cracked overnight. The other one got waxed with paste wax (it's all I have on hand) and it sitting on a shelf in my basement. I'm going to wait until I can get some type of sealer before I try any more bowls. I think I underestimated how difficult this is. You guys make it look too easy.



Thanks for looking, just airing some frustration.

[Robert McGowen]

I'll jump in here. It looks like you are getting some wood that is unusable. ALL wood can be turned, it is just that all wood is not GOOD to turn. From your description and photos, it does sound like the wood was a little to far gone.

The only other thing I see is that you might be trying to hog off the wood with a dull tool. On the second photo it looks like there is a good amount of wood left where you stopped the cut at the rim, plus the entire piece of wood has ridges all over it. A dull tool is going to pull pieces of wood out, especially on the end grain. Use a sharp tool and light pressure.

It gets easier!

[Bill Wyko]

Robert is right, a sharp tool is essential. You'll find yourself pushing the tool to make the cut. With a sharp tool, the cut will come to you. What kind of tool did you use to get this far and what are you sharpening with?

You might also try to stabilize it with some CA if the piece isn't too big.

[John Keeton]

Rob, the burl appears to be cherry, and nearly any wet burl will crack if not sealed and dried correctly. I would suggest that you seal your rough outs, or at the very least, bag them in a brown paper bag to dry out.

I also agree that your gouge may not be sharp, and/or you are not presenting it to the wood correctly, though oak is not a friendly wood to turn!

[Rob Price]

I'm using a 3/8 bowl gouge (I know you're not supposed to, but I trued the outside of the blank up using my roughing gouge first, I was getting beat to death trying to do it with my bowl gouge, I was afraid it would snap). The tool is as sharp as I can get it with a wolverine/varigrind jig. I get a nice, clean single bevel across the tool. I'm confident I'm not getting the right cut on the outside of the bowl. I've tried to roll the tool on its side and 'ride the bevel' like I do when hollowing out the bowl but I can' quite seem to get it right. I end up using more of a pulling/scraping cut with the wing rolled over on the side. For the inside of the bowl I get nice, long clean ribbons of wood. I can't get that on the outside yet. For the regular cherry bowls I did clean up the outside using my square scraper, and the inside with a round scraper and got very nice results, the bowls haven't been sanded or anything since they are rough outs. I'll post some pics later of what I'm trying to do with the bowl gouge, because something clearly isn't right.

I think the burl is cherry, it smelled like it. This is my outside rough out- I haven't even hollowed the inside yet and it's cracking. I probably shouldn't be trying burls right now. It was cool looking, and free, and all I have right now to practice on. I have some walnut logs but at this point I'm waiting to learn a bit so I don't screw them up.

For whatever it's worth, the rim was parted off a bit to define where the curve would stop. I was cutting up to it, that is not the depth of cut I was using. Probably 4 or more cuts to get that deep.

My local turning chapter has a 'classified' page where some guys are available to hire as tutors, I'll probably hire one of those guys for a couple of hours for some hands on training. I don't have any type of woodworking store near bye or anything that offers classes. I'm trying to wing it at this point.

Thanks for the input.

[Steve Vaughan]

Rob, you're gonna be fine. We've all been there, done that, and bought the t-shirt. You've got great friends and knowledge here. Keep a check on the threads posted here and you'll appreciate the wealth of knowledge on every topic.

If you've got a local turning chapter around then maybe you can visit some of their meetings or get to know some turners in your area. Hiring someone would be fine too, but you just might be able to hook up with someone and get an invite to their shop without spending the money. Ditto on everything said here. Get you a can of AnchorSeal to seal those rough cuts, or as others say, get 'em off the lathe and bag 'em up in a paper grocery bag for a couple months...or longer. I'd be careful about the paste wax, although I understand that's all you had. Not only would that get expensive, the wax isn't gonna work with your spray finishes (if you use any of those) unless you get it all out of the wood.

[Russell Eaton]

Send me a private message with your location. I will be happy to help. I won't charge you, just help you out if I can. I am 30 min. south of Atlanta.

[neil mackay]

Burls that are likely to open up or have open resin veins etc I fill with el cheepo CA. I do it as early as I can so any staining will be turned away. If its a bit late for that, seal it with some sort of clear sealer then apply the CA this will stop the bleeding of the CA across the surface.
I turn a fair amount of flimsy type burls and so far to date this method has been very successful, still you have to be watchful and listen for cracking when your turning the suspect burl.

[Jack Mincey]

The first bowl looks like it had a bark inclusion in the wood that came out. On the cherry burl bowl #2, if it had the crack when you first turned it problem was the wood allowed to dry to much before you got to turn it. If the cracks formed after you turned it problem was not hollowing out before you let it dry some. The most important thing in getting green rough outs to dry without issues is to turn them inside and out as quick as possible and TO A CONSISTENT WALL THICKNESS FROM LIP TO BOTTOM and than dry using a brown paper bag or what ever method you prefer. The small checks in the cherry burl would have been an easy fix by sanding some dust into the crack after applying a coat of danish oil after the bowl finished drying. Burls tend to get some smaller checks like these around the spots where the grain changes and have to have some filling to hide them. Not sure where you are in NE Georgia, but we have a club that meets in Cashiers NC and there is one that meets in Haysville NC that you might want to start attending. I can't tell you how much I've learned by going to various clubs in my area. It shortens the learning curve a great deal.
Jack

[Rob Price]

Thanks again for all the tips. The cherry burl cracked while I was roughing the outside, I haven't even had a chance to hollow it yet. I was cut down last week with a good bit of branch on either side. It went from chainsaw to lathe in less than an hour in my shop, so short of going from tree to lathe it was as green as I could get it- I think it's more operator error on my end roughing it down. I'll try the CA glue if the cracks haven't opened up too much, but I think I'm better off starting with more stable wood- it'll make some pretty pens in a year

I bought Raffan's bowl book yesterday on Amazon. I'll read that and I'll probably take you up on your offer Russel, I'm about an hour east of ATL.

Thanks again.

[Don Alexander]

cherry cracks if you dare to breath in the same zip code consider it a design opportunity

[Thomas Canfield]

I'm using a 3/8 bowl gouge (I know you're not supposed to, but I trued the outside of the blank up using my roughing gouge first, I was getting beat to death trying to do it with my bowl gouge, I was afraid it would snap). The tool is as sharp as I can get it with a wolverine/varigrind jig. I get a nice, clean single bevel across the tool. I'm confident I'm not getting the right cut on the outside of the bowl. I've tried to roll the tool on its side and 'ride the bevel' like I do when hollowing out the bowl but I can' quite seem to get it right. I end up using more of a pulling/scraping cut with the wing rolled over on the side. For the inside of the bowl I get nice, long clean ribbons of wood. I can't get that on the outside yet. For the regular cherry bowls I did clean up the outside using my square scraper, and the inside with a round scraper and got very nice results, the bowls haven't been sanded or anything since they are rough outs. I'll post some pics later of what I'm trying to do with the bowl gouge, because something clearly isn't right.

.

You mention using a roughing gouge. There have been a lot of information out there against using a "spindle roughing gouge" for roughing side grain material, expecially large bowl blanks due to the small tang. I agree with the other comments about using sharp tools and the tear out looks like you are using a dull tool or scraping which can tear out in either case. A good sharp edge on your bowl gouge should produce a smooth cut both on the inside and outside. You might ask around you club about a mentor that will give you some "free" advise also. My old club in Tyler and new club in Kerrville both have mentors available.

[Rob Price]

Redemption maybe? Got my new gouges from Thompson tools, read Raffans bowl book, and took that chunk of cherry burl out of the bag and decided to give it a go. Still not a flawless process, and I'm not crazy about the overall shape, but I do now have a bowl with walls ~7/8 thick. I put CA glue in the big cracks. It's sealed. We'll see where it goes from here, there's a few big chunks of bark in the walls- but at least maybe I'll have something to show for the hours I've put into this one.


One question, when hollowing out regular cherry bowls, I get nice long ribbons. When hollowing out this thing I don't, is that because it dried out a bit or from the burl? I still had to wrestle it a bit. The regular cherry cuts like butter.

[Dave Ogren]

Rob,
Next Sat is our monthly meeting of the Carolina Mountain Wood Turners at The Folk Art Center. I am sure that we have a lot of members from your area. We usually have over a hundred in attendance. You would learn a lot.
That being said, I would I would be happy to help you learn all that I know with out charge. I am fairly new but have turned a lot of bowls and have plenty of time to help you.
Send me a PM and I will get right back to you.
Good Luck I know you can do it.
Dave