Member
I thought that too. If the a government agent approves the work it must be safe, right? Because they could get sued. Then I did some research.Originally Posted by Carl Beckett
Actually it's almost impossible to win a court case against a building inspector or the municipality for missing something that causes harm.
The #1 reason for inspections is to be sure the improvements get on the property tax rolls. The belief that a city inspection guarantees the work is done right or to code is a myth.
Member
Sovereign immunity somes from English Common law (as much of our jurisprudence) which does not allow the government to be sued unless the government allows itself to be open to a specific action.
My CO inspection for my house has 17 technical violations that I was aware of, nit picky stuff but they were there. The inspector didn't mention a single one.
Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.
Deep thought for the day:
Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.
[OP]
Member
thx guys, it was starting to feel like a dog chasing it's tail! It really wasn't making sense to run the 18 amp jointer on a 10g 30 amp circuit. My electrician had said, 'look, they down grade the 20 amp breaker by 20% to 16 amps. Your machine motor tag says it can draw 18 amps. Therefore your hooped, have to go up one size". I did as suggested & called the electric dept. The inspector I spoke with said he'd "never heard of duty cycle for welding machines" nor would he lower the requirement for a 'on occasion" use of a machine. Said, "nope, ya gotta' go to the next size. 30 amps." Technically speaking, all 120v plug in tools that say they max at 13+ amps therefore would need a 20 amp breaker & 12G wire.
All done, I'll wire in a bunch of 12G runs, some 20amp plugs, and looks like I'll be forced to put the jointer (18amps) on a 30 amp dedicated breaker with 10G wire. My electrician is supposed to return again today, although I see he's now already 3 hrs late ... and I'll try to talk "logic" which hasn't got me too far yet! Hung my General air filter last night to the ceiling, draws 3amps, at least I know THAT one can go on a regular circuit!! I think I need a good "cut man" in my corner for the next round!!
Contributor
I dont know if it helps at all, but Im in the same boat Scott. I will be (am) running a couple 30A circuits, along with a lot of 20's for the 220 stuff. And then the regular 110 stuff.
Ends up being a lot of wire and more pulls, but I keep telling myself then it will be done and done in a way nobody can gripe about.
No way am I done making appeals to the inspector - it will just keep coming (the nature of the town I live in). And those comments about not being practical to sue your own town are true, I simply was repeating what the inspector blurbed to me (when in reality its more about protecting his own job, and his own trades (he does contracting on the side in a different town and stated flatly that 'I hate do it yourselfers').
But my motto is that its a losing battle to fight it so just appease......
Member
Personally, I would ask the city for a different inspector if he's telling you that you need a dedicated 30A circuit for a lunchbox planer if this is going in a garage. Don't put up with that because it will only get worse.
Member
Easiest thing to do at this point is to make him happy and get him to sign off. Once he signs off you can move the tools as you see fit. Unless your in a little town you won't see him again unless you call him or your working on the outside of the house and he sees you or some neighbor calls on you which has happened to me.
Don
Member
What someone/anyone might plug into one of these receptacles at some time in the future is an absolute unknown and I have never heard of any inspector making any comment about what you can plug in after he's finished his inspection. Stop asking questions (as you have proven they don't know the correct answers and its not their job anyway) and tell the city when you're ready for your inspection. When its signed off on, start using your shop. It is YOUR property - stop asking their permission to use it. And remember, they work for you, not the other way around. And maybe hire a decent electrician next time.
[OP]
Member
Thx everyone, I made a call to Grizzly today to inquire about my G490. As I mentioned the plate on the motor (the machine is a 2007) says 18amps. When I checked online, the new G490 & G490x show that they draw 15amps. I inquired with their tech people and was told it's a different motor now & doesn't draw the same. I don't know if it's a weaker motor now or simply a more efficient motor. But after discussing it with the Grizzly man, he was of the opinion that the 18amp machine - mine - (although it comes equipped with a 12G cord), should "probably " be put on a 10G 30A circuit. I'm taking the advice all in and as Carl will be doing, have decided to run some 30A circuits as well as a bunch of 120V 20A circuits. I'm in agreement that you "can't fight City Hall" and even if I argue & win, I'm sure they have a long memory for the next time. Best to suck it up and move on. Unfortunately, this now means I've got to re & re a new sub panel to house all the breakers for all these circuits. But I suppose as many have said, it's solid piece of mind to have it all done in a "worst case" scenario. A pal just gave me a bunch of 10/3 BX wire so there is no super big cost for the extra runs except the breakers & plugs. My shop heater just arrived this am so I'm pumped. Chose the Marley 31.5 amp 240V one. Yup, you guessed it, requires 8/3 and a 40A breaker. Here I go again!
Member
Be sure to hard wire your heater. Search Sawmillcreek for some fire or near fire issues from 220V plugs and heaters.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ad-Heater-Fire
Last edited by Andrew Joiner; 03-21-2012 at 7:57 PM.
Member
It sounds like your inspector is a pain in the butt and that your electrician might be in cohorts with him. My understanding is that unless you hard wire something, it is temporary. If your receptacles, wire, and breakers all match, that should be sufficient for the inspector. If you plug something in to a 15A circuit and it draws too many amps, the breaker should trip to protect the circuit. That's the purpose of the wire and circuit breaker amperage ratings. The CB is protecting the wiring and receptacle to prevent a fire or other problem. You wouldn't put 14/2 on a 20A breaker, but you could use 12/2 on a 15A because it would be protected.
Member
Scott,
Been running my g0490 on a 20 amp 240v circuit for 6 years now with no problems whatsoever. I initially wired all my 240 v lot circuits with #10 gauge wire , but breakered and plugged them for 20 amps. This way I can always change out the breakers and plugs to get the 30 amp circuits if I ever need them. Just a thought since you are in the process of pulling wire. Not a whole lot of difference in the cost of 10 gauge vs 12 gauge wire.....
As for the 120 volt circuits. Every circuit in my shop is a 20 amp with the exception of the lighting circuits (which are 115 amp). Too many power tools draw near 15 amps , so 20 amp circuits just make sense, especially if you plug in a fan or radio on the same line.
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