Belt Grinder for sharpening

[Bill White]

Sure sounds like a lot of expense as well as "fall out" for a rather simple task. Now don't get your knickers knotted up. I'm just tryin' to justified expense vs: results.
My old Makita waterstone dino gets me where I wanna go. Stropping after grinding (such as it is) makes some pretty darned good edges. Oh well..............
30 secs vs: 1 minute????
Bill

[george wilson]

I'd not care to use my Square Wheel for sharpening,though some seem to be happy with it. My tools will likely last a lot longer just using bench stones(after grinding a new bevel IF needed).

A caution about those thin Mylar grinding belts: NEVER try to present a sharp knife EDGE UPWARDS to them. They will get cut in two,and will give a VIOLENT slap(at least on my Square Wheel unit). You could get a nasty,unclean cut if the edge of the belt hits you when it blows up. I blew up a few of those thin Mylar belts. Lucky to not get hurt,or get the sharp knife grabbed and thrown who knows where!! Doesn't have to be TOO sharp if it's moving fast.

[David Weaver]

trizact belts are a little like that on the edges, though not as sharp. You have to keep your fingers away from the edges of the belts when you're sharpening, though, or they'll give you a turbo papercut that's not neat and clean like a papercut.

Mylar sounds 10x worse.

[Mike Holbrook]

Certainly a belt sander can toss just as much steel around as a stone grinder. I think, however, that someone use to the pieces of stone and or water tossed around by popular stone grinders will find a belt grinder, particularly with trizact type belts, less messy. The compound that does the cutting on these belts does not crumble and get airborne as easily. All the knife enthusiasts and custom knife makers are pushing this technology as shaping and finishing the harder and tougher steels is becoming quite a challenge. Obviously guys making knives via stock removal are removing more steel in more complicated patterns than we wood workers do. We certainly stand to gain from their impact on this tool and the belts they use even if we may not like the prices sometimes.

[Robert LaPlaca]

Hi,

I noticed how on many knife message boards, everyone is successfully using belt grinders with belts up to 15 or 6 micron belts, then a leather honing belt with compound, and getting the best edges they ever had. Would this approach work equally well with planes and chisels? Has anyone here tried? Thanks for your time.

I have one of the Viel units that LV sells.. I find the unit is way too aggressive for chisels (at least for me), have to confess after seeing how aggressive the unit was on a chisel, I wouldn't think about attempting to sharpen one of my LN plane blades... On the upside, the unit does a killer job sharpening turning tools (HSS), I use a Wolverine Jig and the Klingspor Gold 120 grit or the Zirconia 120 grit..

[David Weaver]

That belt speed you're talking about is why I like the kalamazoo grinder better.

That said, you can still do plane irons just fine with the viel grinder if you stick to grinding them and doing final honing elsewhere.

And cambered irons where you don't have to be as perfect about the geometry, it also does well.

It does burn tools more easily than the kalamazoo grinder, though, especially if you're using a finer grit against the platen - it's easier to burn a tool against the platen with a trizact belt than it is to burn a tool on a dry grinder with an old gray wheel.

[Zach England]

I mostly use mine for kitchen knives.

[Robert LaPlaca]

That belt speed you're talking about is why I like the kalamazoo grinder better.

That said, you can still do plane irons just fine with the viel grinder if you stick to grinding them and doing final honing elsewhere.

And cambered irons where you don't have to be as perfect about the geometry, it also does well.

It does burn tools more easily than the kalamazoo grinder, though, especially if you're using a finer grit against the platen - it's easier to burn a tool against the platen with a trizact belt than it is to burn a tool on a dry grinder with an old gray wheel.

I agree,its kind of like a scary sharp grinder.. I tried to use much finer grits of the Klingspor Gold product to see if I could slow down the cutting action using 320 or 400 grits, the finer grits only slowed down the cutting action maybe 10-15% over 120, but the heat generated was maybe on the order of two to three times..The machine really needs a way to slow down the belts speed...

[george wilson]

Don't get me wrong,I have spent many,many hours grinding on belt grinders. The knives I have posted here have all been ground from the solid with a Square Wheel grinder.

However,I don't use one for sharpening knives. And,I have a dedicated dust collector for mine,and a large inverted pyramid scoop just below the belt to collect the dust. Belt grinders with good,sharp belts are many times faster than grinding wheels.

[paul cottingham]

I have one of the Viel units that LV sells.. I find the unit is way too aggressive for chisels (at least for me), have to confess after seeing how aggressive the unit was on a chisel, I wouldn't think about attempting to sharpen one of my LN plane blades... On the upside, the unit does a killer job sharpening turning tools (HSS), I use a Wolverine Jig and the Klingspor Gold 120 grit or the Zirconia 120 grit..

I sharpen chisels with my viel all the time with great results using a 330, 1200, and leather honing belt. In fact the grinder is now my goto tool for sharpening chisels. YMMV of course.

[Karl Fife]

That belt speed you're talking about is why I like the kalamazoo grinder better...It does burn tools more easily than the kalamazoo grinder, though, especially if you're using a finer grit against the platen.

So many people seem to own the Kalamazoo 1SM belt sander. I'm curious if any of you considered the 2" version of this product before purchasing, and if so, what made you choose the 1" version? I gather that the 1x42 machine is an optimal configuration for a TON of things from sanding inside corners to slack-belt sanding of inside curves, but I wonder if you had a wider belt?

It sounds like the higher speed of the 2" version *might* be more of a detriment than a benefit for some things. I know that you can mount a 1" belt on the 2" machine (either by ripping a 2" belt lengthwise or buying 1x48). Is there a case to be made for owning having BOTH?

There's a really interesting 1" and 2" version of the sander assembly that bolts right on to a Baldor grinder. A nice feature is that The belt assembly can be tipped forward or backward (to fully horizontal) if desired. That seems like it could be useful, but It's all too theoretical for me right now. I've briefly used the 1SM in a friend's shop and really liked it.

You (and others) have used this Kalamazoo 1SM tool for a while. With your experience, how would you guide me (as if I were your own son)? I don't mind investing in my shop if it will result in a better flexibility & possibilities. I'm not the guy who "just" wants an effective solution for sharpening turning tools--I'm always doing something new, and "versatility" has paid off for me in the past.

Any thoughts from the anyone would be much appreciated.

[David Weaver]

If I only had one thing in the shop it would be a 2" belt grinder with the ability to use a platen and a solid wheel, and it would be variable speed.

I got the 1sm purely because of price. I wanted something to use to make moulding plane irons and other things that were fairly soft and needed light grinding, and had the viel grinder but junked the motor on mine doing something stupid. Always felt like the viel was a little too fast and wanted a better motor, too, and the 1sm was $225 shipped from enco. That's just crazy cheap.

Money no object, though, I'd have something bigger with variable speed and the ability to grind either on the wheel, loose unbacked belt or on the platen - it was purely a money decision.

[Karl Fife]

Thanks for your thoughts! Crazy cheap indeed! What if you could have TWO things in the shop? :-) Let's say you were magically "gifted" your dream a 2x72 Beaumont KMG belt grinder with VFD and all, would this 1SM unit collect dust OR does it actually excel at certain things, such as sanding inside corners and slack-belt sanding inside curves. In other words, I wonder if a 2" belt sander would actually be worse, making you go instead to your trusty 1SM for many things. What do you think? I don't have enough experience to make a good judgement, so I appreciate your insight. If you think you would still use the 1SM a lot (with the hypothetical KMG in your shop), do you think you would prefer that the 1SM's belt be mounted to a Baldor grinder setup with the tilting mount (like the 1SK6)? Would the tilting aspect (as well as better motor clearance) aspect really matter much in your experience? Crazy cheap? As it turns out that I can get a 1SM, a 2FSM or the baldor-grinder-mounted 2SK7 really cheap right now too.

[David Weaver]

I might be a bad person to ask of that, because in a situation where a corner exists and not much metal needs to be removed, I get great pleasure from filing to a finish. A good file is predictable, a joy to use and always as reliable as your eyes and arms.

If I had two belt grinders and one was a one-inch grinder, though, I'm sure I could find uses for it. If for nothing else, to do things that might ruin much more expensive belts that go on a 2x72 grinder, or to use as a fine honing machine (the 1sm is a great grinder to have a trizact belt on for fore planes and jacks - just run the whole curve along the belt for 15 seconds and then chase the burr off with a good very high grit finish stone, and all of the sudden you have very sharp curved irons while protecting a laziness gene).

All that said, I would LOVE to have a VS Beaumont grinder like you describe. I make enough tools that I could use it every couple of months and really enjoy it, and it might open up some basic knife making, which would be nice.

[Tony Shea]

I wouldn't mind having one of these belt grinders to aid in shaping knife edges. I used to make my own hunting type knives with different handles/scales and was stuck shaping the edges with paper on glass and stones. I eventually started using my belt sander with a jig I built to keep angles consistent. But a rig like the Kalamazoo and Viel would def be nice for this purpose as well as re-shaping edges of my chisel and plane blades that are in rough shape or have developed a bad angle. I would miss my hollow grind though so I would still probably use the 6" grinder for most blades on my woodworking tools. It might be nice though to get a flat initial bevel on some Japanese blades. Once in a while I'll get some Japanese chisels or plane blades that have a bevel angle that is way off of what I want, sometimes as high as 38* and sometimes as low as 20*. Some Tsunesaburo blades I've gotten had the super low bevel angle that wouldn't even touch hardwood with chipping. Changing this bevel by hand is an incredible workout.

Dave, I swear you must have a small fortune wrapped up in your sharpening supplies. It'd be nice to have the options available that it sounds as though you have.