What's wrong with these grinds?

[Lee Alkureishi]

Hi all,I made a couple of quick and dirty oland tools this week, but I'm having a little trouble getting the grind right. I'm trying to match the grind on a spindlemaster or versachisel, which is a rounded v-shape, 30 degree bevel at the tip, with an almost semi-circular profile. To my eye, I got pretty close, but for the life of me I can't get the thing to cut without bouncing around. Can anyone give me a few pointers on whether the grind is wrong, or I just need to work on my technique? Thanks!p.s. I know the smaller one has some imperfections at the tip - It took off and hit the wall while I was using the belt sander to work the top surface; I just cleaned it up enough for the photos, as I don't want to regrind a grind that might be wrong!

[Ryan Baker]

You say it's bouncing around. Are you trying to make scraping cuts or bevel rubbing cuts (I assume the latter)? The bouncing is likely from coming off the bevel, either due to an uneven shape to the tip, or just a positioning issue. (Be careful that you aren't bumping into the bottom side of the tool also.) That looks like a very aggressive tip shape to me. Such a shape requires pretty careful tool control to avoid problems. I'm no expert on spindlemaster tools, but I seem to recall them being significantly wider. The rounded bevel on the bottom will also make it really easy to lever the tip up off the surface, and the pointed tip will make it really easy to get it to dig in hard. It's pretty much like cutting with a skew. I'd say, make sure the grind is nice and smooth/even everywhere, then get some cheap pine and do a lot of practicing.

[Lee Alkureishi]

Thanks for the suggestions. Yes, I'm attempting to rub the bevel for a planing-type cut similar to a skew. I don't think the bottom of the tool is a problem - it was initially, which is why I ground back the bottom halves of the cutting bits. The holder doesn't seem to be in the way. On the larger tool (which is a little less than 3/4" across the cutting surface), I think the tip geometry is pretty even and the bevel is very smooth. The spindlemaster comes in sizes from 1/2" to 1". But, looking at the spindlemaster you're absolutely right - it's a tad less pointy shape compared to what I made... Will get to work reshaping the tip (and then repolishing that bevel - sigh...). Has anyone else tried to do this kind of grind? I couldn't find anything online about it, but it seems like it should be relatively straighforward... Thanks again!

[Jamie Donaldson]

Lee- I learned to turn first from Knud Oland, and your tips are much too aggressive for his style of cutting. These tools are basically scrapers, not slicers, the shape that is almost universally used in hollowing tools. You should not be attempting to rub the bevel, but present the tool perpendicular to the wood at or slightly above centerline of the turning. Your bevel angles illustrated are way too steep, and should be much less pointy at the tips, and you will find them to be much more user friendly.

[robert baccus]

Jamie hit it. i use a much flatter bevel and try not to concern yourself about the right side unless you reverse turn a lot. this gives you more metal to shape the left side, perhaps much half-rounder.----------------------old forester

[Lee Alkureishi]

Hi Jamie and Robert,Thanks for the tips. I do understand the difference between scrapers and cutting tools, and also that Oland's original tool was the former. I've have some shopmade tips with this grind. However, I'm now trying to replicate a particular type of tool, the spindlemaster, which is basically a gouge without a bevel. As such, it would be a slicing tool and should be presented with the bevel rubbing. Unless there's a reason why this wouldn't work with an interchangeable tip tool such as this? Thanks again

[John Keeton]

Lee, I have one of the Penn State versa chisels, and for $20, it seems to be worth the money for this type of tool. I don't use it often, and use it mostly for skew type planing cuts, a job it will do fairly well. The contour is considerably different than what you have.

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LCVERSAX.html

[Jamie Donaldson]

Lee- I made the mistake of buying a Sorby spindlemaster when they first appeared on the market, and soon found that it wasn't even suitable for opening finish cans. As a potential hybrid tool it didn't do anything nearly as well as the tools it was supposed to replace, so I gave it away-didn't have the nerve to sell it to another unsuspecting turner looking for the next great tool.

[Reed Gray]

The Spindle Master is similar to a skew, but if you look at it, you will notice how thin/delicate it is. Not a tool for planing/scraping cuts. Your tips are okay if you want a detail gouge, though the handles could get in the way. The Oland tool is a scraper, and to use your cutters as an Oland tool, you need a 60+ degree bevel, and not so pointy. Doug Thompson makes a fluteless gouge out of half round bar stock. This works perfectly if you want a tool that is far superior to a Spindle Master (which was an attempt to duplicate an Allen Batty tool, and as Allen said,"they got it all wrong!"). Since the bottom is round, it is not suited for a roughing/scraping type cut. It is great for high shear angles, or if you put a pointy nose on it, it makes a great detail gouge.

robo hippy

[Ryan Baker]

I didn't realize from the original picture that the big one was as wide as it is. Hard to tell scale. I think you have a reasonable representation of a spindlemaster-type tool, from what I can see. I haven't heard of anyone yet who is a fan of the spindlemaster. I think it is just one of those tools that takes a lot effort to learn to deal with, being as aggressive as it can be. Good luck figuring it out.

[Lee Alkureishi]

Hi everyone,

Sorry for the delayed response - the forum doesn't seem to want to send me email alerts!

Thanks again for the advice. When I get some more time in the shop, I'll play around with the grind some more - I particularly like the idea of replicating the fluteless gouge..

[Roger Wilson]

Dennis Montville makes a well made Oland type tool. Scroll down the page and you'll see what his grind looks like. He also makes a sharpening block and tool bits which should make things easier.

http://www.dwmontville.com/AvailableTools.htm

[Kyle Iwamoto]

As a Spindlemaster owner, I have to ask why you are attempting to copy it. It is more frustrating to use than a real skew. Yes the guy in the video sold me on it and I rushed out a got one. I would regrind your tools into more of a scraper type tool.

Just my $0.02.

Oh, after tossing my Spindlemaster at the wall the last time I got a catch, I found it under my tool cabinet. I finally found a good use for it. I dug up some weeds from my lawn. I found that bevel up worked better for digging weeds. I can say I have THE most expensive weeder on my block....