Why I Buy Over the Internet

[Brian Kent]

I need a drill chuck with a #2 Morse Taper.

Step #1 - Go to Home Depot. "Yes, the Drill Chucks are over there." "Do you have one with a #2 Morse Taper?" "Sorry, no".

Step #2 - Stop in at Harbor Freight. "Do you sell Drill Chucks." "Just the 4-way." I had never heard of a 4-way chuck before, but he sells the tools and I am just a learner / buyer. "Actually, that was a 4-way drill chuck key. What I need is a chuck for a drill press, with a #2 Morse Taper, like most of your drill presses use." "Nope, don't have that. Try Tool Mart."

Step #3 - Go to Tool Mart. Front Door says "Entrance. Use Entrance on other side of building." The Door on the other side of the building says "Use Entrance on other side of building." I went in the first one. "I need a Jacobs Drill Chuck with a #2 Morse Taper." "We don't sell those, but the repair department can get you one." "Hi, do you sell Drill Chucks with a #2 Morse Taper?" "What brand?" "I don't care. A #2 Morse Taper is a universal standard. All of the drill presses you sell have a #2 or #3 Morse Taper." (I just decided never to bring in a tool for repair if I know more than they do. They are supposed to know more than me. A whole lot more.) "Well we need a part number. If you bring in a part number and the name of the manufacturer we can order one for you."

Step #4 - I see one on Rockler's website. I can get one for just $52.24 if I drive 20 miles. I call first. The Morse Taper is not in stock.

Step #5 - Go to Lee Valley website during coffee break. They have one for $31.50, delivered for free to my door (if I spend another $8.50 at Lee Valley, which I am quite willing to do.) I know that they will get the order right, deliver a product that works, and if anything goes wrong the nicest people in the world will comfort me and make it right.

I gave 4 local brick and mortar stores a fair shot and was willing to pay more for the convenience of driving to them and teaching them about the machines they sell. That's why I buy over the internet.

Brian

[Chuck Wintle]

I need a drill chuck with a #2 Morse Taper.

Step #1 - Go to Home Depot. "Yes, the Drill Chucks are over there." "Do you have one with a #2 Morse Taper?" "Sorry, no".

Step #2 - Stop in at Harbor Freight. "Do you sell Drill Chucks." "Just the 4-way." I had never heard of a 4-way chuck before, but he sells the tools and I am just a learner / buyer. "Actually, that was a 4-way drill chuck key. What I need is a chuck for a drill press, with a #2 Morse Taper, like most of your drill presses use." "Nope, don't have that. Try Tool Mart."

Step #3 - Go to Tool Mart. Front Door says "Entrance. Use Entrance on other side of building." The Door on the other side of the building says "Use Entrance on other side of building." I went in the first one. "I need a Jacobs Drill Chuck with a #2 Morse Taper." "We don't sell those, but the repair department can get you one." "Hi, do sell Drill Chucks with a #2 Morse Taper?" "What brand?" "I don't care. A #2 Morse Taper is a universal standard. All of the drill presses you sell have a #2 or #3 Morse Taper." (I just decided never to bring in a tool for repair if I know more than they do. They are supposed to know more than me. A whole lot more.) "Well we need a part number. If you bring in a part number and the name of the manufacturer we can order one for you."

Step #4 - I see one on Rockler's website. I can get one for just $52.24 if I drive 20 miles. I call first. The Morse Taper is not in stock.

Step #5 - Go to Lee Valley website during coffee break. They have one for $31.50, delivered for free to my door (if I spend another $8.50 at Lee Valley, which I am quite willing to do.) I know that they will get the order right, deliver a product that works, and if anything goes wrong the nicest people in the world will comfort me and make it right.

I gave 4 local brick and mortar stores a fair shot and was willing to pay more for the convenience of driving to them and teaching them about the machines they sell. That's why I buy over the internet.

Brian

that sums up how i view things also..most if not all can be bought online so the brick and mortar stores slowly fade away. Tools, car parts, computers and computer supplies etc.

[Victor Robinson]

Yup. Couldn't agree more.

[Russ Ambrose]

i completely agree with your sentiments, but there ARE some brick and mortar places that are knowledgeable and provide great customer service, just like there are internet outfits that are great until you have a problem, question, or need to return something. just sayin'

[Brian Kent]

i completely agree with your sentiments, but there ARE some brick and mortar places that are knowledgeable and provide great customer service, just like there are internet outfits that are great until you have a problem, question, or need to return something. just sayin'

Fair enough. I love to go to Craftsman Studio in Spring Valley, CA (as well as shopping on line with them) and Reel Lumber in Riverside, CA, just to name a couple of local gems.

Another interesting development is that the internet brings us closer to great tool makers. Doug Thompson at Thompson Tools, Ron Brese at Brese Plane, Trent Bosch at Trent Bosch Studios (to name a few) feel like good friends with their personal service.

[Rod Sheridan]

LOL Brian, when you said you were going to stores I thought you meant real ones like an industrial supplier, not the Wal Marts of the home destruction type.

Glad to see you're supporting a good Canadian company though..............Rod.

[Bill Trouard]

I agree 100%, I have tried over and over, Even my local hardwood supplier. its suppose to be a professional cabinet makers supply house. When I was last there I was buying some cabinet grade poplar core plywood. I asked if they could get Baltic Birch and his response was "I've never heard of it, but this is the best you cay buy and we sell a lot of it". They guy was also insisting that it was B1 grade. when it was delivered it was the same HD/lowes C3 Purebond.
Even local auto parts dealers and audio video stores are just as bad if not worse. It seems none of the B&M shops are willing to pay a fair wage that would attract a professional that knows what he is talking about.

I was in best-buy last week and a kid that worked there was trying to sell me a new no name TV and at the same time trying to sell me a $200 HDMI cable to connect it. I was not even shoping for a TV. I went in to grab a Apple gift card. I found it hard not to break out laughing. He knew nothing about anything he was talking about. I have been a Audiophile for 30 years. Anyone that knows hi-end speakers might recognize my avatar logo.

If these B&M business would just stop trying to squeeze the bottom line to death, too many are forcing potential customers to shop online. due to poor customer service, poor exchange policies and just not having the items they advertise in stock.

[David Kumm]

i've also fallen into the big box trap. Used to go to HD for electrical and found I could go to the industrial park and stop in an electric place and although the price was a little higher on some stuff the quality was always better and often the price was too. The box stores tend to really upcharge the electrical fittings and such. Dave

[glenn bradley]

I appreciate your diligence. I am fortunate (or unfortunate depending on your lifestyle) to live near BORGs, Rockler, etc. I do as you do and try to give the local B&M my business whenever I can. Yes, I even patronize the local BORG if I can; their employees live in my area and have kids that go to the schools my taxes pay for, etc. All to often my experience is like yours and I go online but, I try to spend my money locally.

[Chris Tsutsui]

Your average B&M employee probably isn't trained about drill press chucks.

You can't go wrong with that Taiwan chuck and arbor as I have one and used one not too long ago on my wood lathe.

However if you can find a good deal on a used chuck at a garage sale or craigslist/ebay such as an albrecht keyless chuck, you can then buy an arbor adapter from McMastercarr and get it to fit your drill press that has the MT#2. Just make sure the chuck you buy does not have an integrated arbor because then you need to make sure that built-in arbor is an MT#2.

I am absolutely loving the albrecht chucks though they might be overkill.

Mcmastercarr sells about 200 chucks and adapters so you can definitely find what you're looking for as far as information, however their prices are on the high side. They're in santa fe springs california so you should get stuff from them next day. I save on shipping and just drive to their "will call" area as it's literally 0.7 miles away from my office.

BTW, if your replacing a bad chuck, you can typically remove the old arbor adapter from the bad chuck and only replace the chuck. Sometimes its difficult to remove the arbor but there are tips from machinests I've found on the web and used with success.

[Jeff Duncan]

Buying online is fine, I buy a lot of stuff for my business...some online and some B&M. However please don't refer to the bottom of the barrel junk selling box stores as if they would actually have something useful. I would have never even bothered making the trip to any of the places you mentioned as even if any of them had a drill chuck, chances are high it would be an overpriced lower quality unit. For a drill chuck I'd find my local tool repair joint....you know, the old guy who's been fixing tools in his dingy little, poorly lit, wrong part of town shop for the last 30 years. Unfortunately there's less and less of those guys around b/c of the box stores so we have to resort to the net more and more often.

Here's just one reason why I like B&M's .........years ago when I first moved into my current shop I needed to fix some of the old plumbing. I took an old leaky shut off valve down to the local old fashioned hardware store to buy a replacement so I could get the bathroom up and running again. I don't remember exactly the problem, but it was more involved than a simple washer. The old guy asks me what the problem is and I tell him, and he proceeds to explain that he 'could' sell me a new valve, but if I wanted he could fix it for much less money and it would work fine. So he goes about fixing the valve for me, which took maybe about 5 or 10 minutes of his time, replaces a couple parts that he had right there on hand, and then when he's done I ask how much? I don't remember exactly what it was....but it was much less than $1!!! I gave him a five for his time and thanked him and have been buying stuff from there ever since. Try getting that kind of service online or at a box store

good luck,
JeffD

[Rob Sack]

With the big box stores, they try and cover a lot of bases, from lumber to lawn mowers. My latest trip, and final trip to Rockler, which is supposed to cater to the woodworker, was to buy a Delta T2 fence for a table saw was I was refurbishing. Now Rockler is a Delta dealer. I asked if the fence was in stock. No. Can you order one? Manager: "I think it has been discontinued." Could you check, since I just spoke with the technical department at Delta to get the specs. Manager: "Well, the rep told me 3 months ago it was discontinued." Will you please check. "Oh, all right." He checks and says he can order me one, but he won't let me use my usual professional discount and I would have to pay an enormous amount in shipping. Translation: If we don't have it on the shelf, go pound sand. I go back to my shop, hop on the computer, and find one, at slightly less than the Rockler price with the professional discount. Now through the internet, I find it at a retail store for less than a discounted Rockler price and have it in my shop 2 days later. I realize that saving money on the internet results from the many internet dealers that have no retail overhead. All the more reason that specialty houses like Rockler would want to try and keep their long time customers happy and wanting to come back. As a side note, SawStop is fair traded. The prices are the same where ever you buy them. Guess where I did NOT buy my SawStop?

[Jerry Thompson]

I live in an area with over a million in population. It is a 35 mile drive through city traffic to get to Woodcraft. I go there often to support them but with gas, yada, yada, the folks on the Internet will be getting more of my business.

[Paul McGaha]

Hi Brian,

I understand the problem. It was good of you to try to get the sale to your local stores. But they are not as well stocked as an internet store.

About the only local woodworking store we have around here is a couple of Woodcrafts. One of them is maybe 10 miles from me and the other one is 30 to 40 miles away. I hope we never lose those stores because it is really helpful to see all the tools and everything up close.

PHM

[Brian Kent]

Mcmastercarr sells about 200 chucks and adapters so you can definitely find what you're looking for as far as information, however their prices are on the high side. They're in santa fe springs california so you should get stuff from them next day. I save on shipping and just drive to their "will call" area as it's literally 0.7 miles away from my office.

That's great to know about Mcmastercarr. I can actually support a local place! Well, a couple of hours away, but still in So Cal.