thoughts on this new sharpening package from Lee Valley.

[Kevin Blunt]

Hello,
I am very tempted to sell my Norton waterstones and go for this if it doesn't require flattening like it says in the description but all I know is waterstones.
What are your thoughts positive or negative?
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...38&cat=51&ap=1
Thanks for the input.
Kevin

[Mike Henderson]

Remember that you have to buy the diamond honing paste. So you don't have to flatten but you have to use the diamond paste.

Mike

[Jeff Posten]

Hopefully someone can answer this but I've always wondered what keeps the diamond paste from "eating" the reference plate? If you're rubbing the tool steel against the plate why doesn't the plate wear as well? Is the metal harder? Or is it because the diamonds are embedded in the steel on the plate? Other than that it looks like a cost effective method of sharpening without the hassle of flattening. Especially considering I just spent $200 on the new DMT Dia-Flat, which is essentially the same thing but just has the diamonds already fused.

[Harlan Barnhart]

Hopefully someone can answer this but I've always wondered what keeps the diamond paste from "eating" the reference plate?

Once the diamond embed in the plate, they don't move around any more and cause wear.

[Casey Gooding]

I've used diamond paste a few times, but on MDF. It certainly gets the job done. Produced the shiniest backs I've ever had. Mine dried out and became difficult to use. Some mineral oil would probably fix that, though.

[Derek Cohen]

Hello,
I am very tempted to sell my Norton waterstones and go for this if it doesn't require flattening like it says in the description but all I know is waterstones.
What are your thoughts positive or negative?
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...38&cat=51&ap=1
Thanks for the input.
Kevin

Hi Kevin

I did some pre-production testing on these plates. They are steel rather than the traditional cast iron. Comparing the steel plate with my cast iron plates, I actually came to prefer these steel plates. They are good.

What is "good"? They are flat and they take and hold the diamond paste very well.

The way they are used is that one smears a little paste over the plate, about a pea altogether. Spread it out and try and push it into the plate. If your (oil-based) paste is too thick, thin it with a little mineral oil (e.g. baby oil). The aim is to embed the diamond in the paste. This effectively creates a diamond plate. When you run a blade over the plate, the diamonds cut as they partially project. You do not end up wearing the plate as the diamonds are fixed - in comparison to "loose diamonds", which roll around.

The good news is that these plates work fantastically ... with the appropriate grits. I use 40 micron for grinding (e.g. lapping the backs of blades - fantastic for chisels), then 15, 3, and 0.5 microns as a sharpening system. This equates to waterstones of 1000, 3000 and 15000 grit.

Diamond paste is a great medium - possibly the only medium - for PM steels and HSS. Of course it will work well on all steel as well.

I would not rush and get rid of your Norton waterstones just yet. As good as the diamond paste is, it is not without weaknesses.

The issues ..

Firstly, diamond paste can be messy. Not the splashy type messy, but greasy type messy when you are setting it up. Once I have a charged plate I wipe away the residue since what is relevant is the diamond that is embedded in the plate not the paste on top. (I have used taken plates to wood shows when I do a hand tool demonstration, and I get really weird looks when others see me honing a blade on what looks like bare steel).

Secondly, I would be very cautious about using a honing guide on a plate with paste as it can migrate into the wheels and wear the bearings. Further, it will migrate to and contaminate the other plates. I wipe blades down carefully between plates. I only freehand on diamond paste. To use a honing guide on these plates I section off an area with tape for the wheels to run, which s free of paste. This means that the blade will not be able to have much back-and-forth space, but diamonds cut fast and you do not need more.

I think that most should try diamond paste as it can offer so much. However it will never replace waterstones, or even oil stones, if the current regime is already satisfying the user.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Matthew N. Masail]

you can always build a small "runway" for the wheels so only the blade contacts the plate. you can even do it along side of the plate so you can use the plate 1/3, 1/3, 1/3.... I think it looks great. a cheaper alternative to buying diamond plates.

[David Weaver]

I'd imagine there is a flatness lifetime on the plates, that at the very least you'd need to lap them (and doing so isn't that easy).

I have a single mild steel plate that I use to flatten bad plane backs (irons that you'd never save starting on a medium stone), and it does wear hollow fairly quickly with 100 grit. I would probably just buy another plate given how much of a bear it is to lap them and toss them to the side to be used later when I need a piece of mild steel for something else. I don't know how fast they would hollow with smaller grit, though, and you could use both sides before tossing them.

(EDIT: removed the comment about the flat ground stock, I thought I saw the prices for the LV plates as $35, but they're only $20-something each. As cheap as kanabans that probably aren't as accurately ground.)

Diamond powder is available for about $22 per 100 carats, too (which is many times more than what's in the norton tubes or whoever makes the paste). If you're going to do all of your sharpening this way, that's a cheaper way to go than the pastes. WD 40 and thin mineral oil both work fine as a lubricant, as would almost anything else.

Plane bottoms if you have the means to flatten them are also a good idea, and they will be a lot easier to relap than mild steel. If you have a couple of junk castings around, that's pretty much free.

I agree with derek that I wouldn't get any decent guide near the diamonds.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Earlier this week, I read (don't remember if on this forum or another) about using diamond paste on a translucent arkansas stone to achieve finer honing that typically available on such a stone. Have any of you heard of that method or tried it?

[David Weaver]

That's been a discussion item several times on wood central, I think.

[Darren Brewster]

Earlier this week, I read (don't remember if on this forum or another) about using diamond paste on a translucent arkansas stone to achieve finer honing that typically available on such a stone. Have any of you heard of that method or tried it?

I have seen pictures or videos of Garret Hack doing that. You could probably Google them up.

[Howard Pollack]

Derek- do you use anything special to embed the diamonds in the plate? -Howard

[george wilson]

I use diamonds embedded in nickel matrixes on my bench stone,and horizontal/vertical 200 rpm diamond grinder. Unless you are very methodical and know what you are doing,I advise staying away from diamonds. If they get into your machinery,or other mechanisms,they are there to stay.

All my long career,traditional stones have done just fine for me. At least the diamonds trapped in nickel matrixes are not so free to get loose,though some still do. In using them,I keep track of any paper towels I use to wipe blades off,and throw them into the trash before they get forgotten,and used on something else.

Since my plane irons and chisels are not carbide,the ceramic stones have served me quite well. And,before them,oil stones and razor stones.

[David Weaver]

I use diamonds embedded in nickel matrixes on my bench stone,and horizontal/vertical 200 rpm diamond grinder. Unless you are very methodical and know what you are doing,I advise staying away from diamonds. If they get into your machinery,or other mechanisms,they are there to stay.

All my long career,traditional stones have done just fine for me.

I have similar thoughts about it, when i go back to routine wants, I always go back to the stones. If I had a good translucent stone, I would be afraid I'd ruin it with diamonds, but I can see why a diamond user would prefer a good stone as a base vs. steel, especially for freehand sharpening. There's something missing from the freehand feel with steel on steel sharpening.

[Steven Lee, NC]

I attended a workshop by Garret Hack over the weekend (stealth gloat) and he used diamond paste on a scrap piece of cherry.

I have seen pictures or videos of Garret Hack doing that. You could probably Google them up.