I am really confussed....

[Dale Cruea]

I have been sharpening buy hand for several years now. I am getting pretty good at it in my view.
I rub my blades across several different grit stones and then an 8000 grit King gold.
I used to follow this with a short strop with rouge.
I found out that rouge was too soft for hardened steel like I use. I changed to the green stuff. This compound is said to be .5 micron.
I figured IF my 8000 grit stone is about 2 micron or there about. Then the .5 green compound should not scratch the bevel but polish it.
I have a new horse butt strop. Hair side out.

It appears not to be this way.
The green compound adds lots of scratches to my bevel.
It will scratch the back that I took all of this time to polish with the rouge.

My question is: How can something that is roughly 4 times finer put bigger scratches than my 8000 grit stone in my blades?????

My bevels look worse after stropping than when I finish with the 4000 grit stone.

I am thinking I should buy a 15000 grit stone and be done with stropping.
Or got to the .5 micron diamond spray to strop with.

[Curt Putnam]

From whom did you purchase the green crayon?

[Stuart Tierney]

If you hit yourself in the head with a hammer, do you keep doing it and wonder why it hurts or do you stop doing it so it stops hurting?

Lose the polishing compound, and use the strop without anything on it.

Keep it simple.

Stu.

[Derek Cohen]

The Gold King leaves a shiny finish. But so should the green compound.

On what surface are you using the green compound?

The problem could be that the green compound may be contaminated, the surface you use it on is contaminated, or both.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Daniel Berlin]

The Gold King leaves a shiny finish. But so should the green compound.

On what surface are you using the green compound?

The problem could be that the green compound may be contaminated, the surface you use it on is contaminated, or both.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek's right, and these are good things to check out.
But let me suggest another possibliity
Green compound is generally rated by average particle size. Since there is no real standard for green compound (unlike, say, sandpaper), you get varying quality.
Most of it has an "average" particle size of 0.5 micron, but different quality compound may contain much coarser particles, and much finer particles, whereas higher quality compound has a much better distribution of particles. So you may end up with larger scratches, though you end up with a theoretically finer average scratch pattern.
BTW Worse, than all of this, not all green compound labeled as chromium oxide is even all chromium oxide!
Depending on who you got your stuff from, you may have gotten "not great" stuff.

Lee valley sells high quality chromium oxide compound if you want someone who "does it right". They rate it by the average scratch pattern it generates, rather than the particle size in the compound.
Personally, when i have the urge to go to 0.5 micron, i buy the lapping films.
No worries about contamination, etc.

[Chris Griggs]

Is it possible the polishing action of the green compound is simply highlighting scratches left over from the coarser grit stones that were not adequately removed?

[Dale Cruea]

Hmmmmm, some very good thoughts. I don't recall where I purchased the green stuff and my strop does sit close to my bench grinder.
Thanks again guys.
Dale

[Charlie Stanford]

if you hit yourself in the head with a hammer, do you keep doing it and wonder why it hurts or do you stop doing it so it stops hurting?

Lose the polishing compound, and use the strop without anything on it.

Keep it simple.

Stu.

amen, brother!

[Jonas Baker]

I have actually had the same issue occasionally. I find that when I add a bit of oil to the loaded strop, then this doesn't happen anymore. I use Jajoba oil, as that what I have, but I'm sure other oils would work well. The oil seems to remove the built up polishing compound and creates more of a uniform slurry, so to speak. I have also started to use mdf as a strop and it has made my stropping experience a lot more enjoyable.

[David Weaver]

I think the green crayons that are called "microfine" in a yellow box are more than half other stuff, including aluminum oxide.

If you want 0.5 micron stuff that's closely graded, you'll need to get green stuff from a shaving supply place. Star shaving sells pigment, 3 ounces of it (which is a LOT) for about $12. You can mix it with oil if you'd like.

Your strop shouldn't be somewhere that it can get swarf off of a grinder.

All of that aside, if the edge is much keener with the green stuff on a strop and if the surface you plane or chisel has no visible lines at all, then don't worry so much about what the edge looks like.

(if I feel the want for an edge that sharp, I would rather get it straight off of a harder surface, like MDF, anyway)

[Charlie Stanford]

If you just have to strop get the Wood is Good hard rubber strop with the accompanying small container of aluminum oxide powder. It'll put a shine on steel and the hard composition rubber won't dub edges. A few strokes will remove rag and do light touchups. I don't advocate using a strop in lieu of a stone but if you were going to this is the one to use because of its firmness.

A case can be made that you don't need to strop when using really fine stones like the 8,000 grit King and finer. If you're getting visible rag and a burr that won't release on the King you need to lighten up the pressure on your last passes across the King (this applies to all stones really). Flip back and forth bevel to back with really light pressure on your 8000 and you can forgo the strop.

Sharpening can get as complicated, overwrought, and as equipment and gadget laden as you want it to be. You have to remind yourself that SOMEHOW the guys who built all of the 18th century masterpieces managed to get it done and in the context of running (usually) profitable businesses. I've seen the pieces in museums. They did not appear to be hamstrung by the sharpening media available to them.

[Chris Griggs]

it has made my stripping experience a lot more enjoyable.

Best typo ever!!!!

[george wilson]

Amen,Charlie!! The many things I have posted here were all made with sharpening on simple stones. I was sharpening back then with a Super Punjab razor stone made by the American Hone Co. in Moravia,Iowa(or Ohio?)

This stone had a fine textured green side,which was the coarse side,and a much finer brown side. I just used lock oil on it at the time. Lock oil was available at the museum's warehouse. It was oil thinned out to run into locks,after which the solvent would evaporate. This,and a strop with Simichrome on it was what I used to get razor sharp edges for the tiny carvings I did,as well as coarse planing. I did experiment with different stones when I first came there,and had funds to do so,but I settled on the Super Punjab. It was a smallish stone,about 3" x 4",typical of razor stone sizes.

I liked those razor stones so well,I got the warehouse to stock them so the other craftsmen could get them easily.

Today,I use a diamond bench stone,followed by black and white ceramic stones and a little stropping. Water with a few drops of detergent is my lube.

[Dale Cruea]

Thanks for all of the tips and suggestions.

I honed my blade to 8000 and picked up a nice piece of butt leather (assuming this to be horse butt),
I put some leather conditioner on it then stropped the blade a few times. Worked great no scratches and very sharp.

The old way cut hair on my arm but not as smoothly as it does now.

I also used the plane on some mahogany end grain. Cut like butter and no little white lines.

I think I have found a better way to sharpen.
Thanks.

[george wilson]

Horse butt is cordovan. It is a good leather,and was advertised a lot when I was a kid for shoes. A joke back then was kangaroo shoes. They were soft,and worn reputedly by old people!! Wonder what the old timers would say about our very soft running,training,or walking shoes made from synthetic cloths? I never wear leather shoes any more unless it's a formal occasion.