CNC Router Recomendations

[Paul Joynes]

Hi group,

I am starting to research the purchase of a CNC router for use in a home based business. The major deciding factor in the router choice is whether it can be installed on my basement shop.

My shop is accesses through a "U" shaped stairway so anything larger than a refrigerator can't be installed. I have confirmed with Shopbot that the components of a 48"x48" PRSstandard will fit (Buddy will not) but I am wondering if there are other brands that I should be considering.

Let me know if you have a recommendation to share.

Cheers,
Paul

[Ross Moshinsky]

CNCRouterPart's 4x4 or 4x8 kit is probably the best kit out there. It's very comparable to the ShopBot PRSstandard. The CNCRouterPart's kit is a lot more work to put together (probably 30-40 hours vs 6-8 hours of the ShopBot) but that's where the savings comes from.

Otherwise CAMaster's Stinger is another option. There are pros and cons between the ShopBot and CAMaster which you'll have to look into. Mostly comes down to software, motors, and drive software.

[james mcgrew]

a stinger is a solid welded frame, i would get on camheads and shopbot forums with some pictures and dimensions

[Connie Ratisseau]

The CarveWright will fit down there. It can easily fit on a 24" X 36" cart or counter space. Max carve per piece is 14.5 inches wide x 12 feet long (20 lbs weight limit), but using the tiling technique, the design size is unlimited. Perfect for a home based business.

[Lawrence Richards]

The CarveWright will fit down there. It can easily fit on a 24" X 36" cart or counter space. Max carve per piece is 14.5 inches wide x 12 feet long (20 lbs weight limit), but using the tiling technique, the design size is unlimited. Perfect for a home based business.

+1 - I LOVE my Carvewright... easy to program, constantly improving... and the newest model (C) fixed a lot of problems the earliest models had

Lawrence

[Jerome Stanek]

I started out with a carvewright and only had it a short time until I saw the draw backs. I ended up with a Shopbot and would never do back to the toy carvewright.

[Lawrence Richards]

I started out with a carvewright and only had it a short time until I saw the draw backs. I ended up with a Shopbot and would never do back to the toy carvewright.

This is kind of like saying "I had a Toyota Corolla, Now I have a Land Rover and am happier" The Carvewright has some drawbacks... but I have found ways to overcome them and really enjoy mine.

The price is what got me into the CW - comparing the CW to a Shopbot isn't really apples to apples, but it's great that you are happy. You can EASILY get into a carvewright (delivered) for well under $1500. This includes the software, bit, and motor (which is part of the machine) I couldn't even touch a shopbot (even a shopbot buddy) for under $7K. I know that $1500 is a lot of money, but it really isn't a lot of money for the capabilities that are offered....

This is just my opinion... I'm not a Carvewright employee but am just a happy (very happy) consumer that really enjoys the work I am able to do with my Carvewright. Here is a portfolio of some of my work. Probably 75% of my recent projects used my Carvewright.... It's more than paid for itself, and I'm a hobby user.

http://s171.photobucket.com/albums/u...view=slideshow

Just my .02
Lawrence

[james mcgrew]

i agree the CW has come a long way !!,, i just wish they would offer the retrofit to all of us who were guinea pigs and purchased the junk at the outset!! and we aint talking about a few people, until one makes thier reputation right it will always be bad!

[Rich Fennessey]

Lawrence, that's some great work you've done, both quality and quantity. Thanks for sharing that. I'm new to CNC myself and I just got a machine this last Feb.

Paul, I have a 4x8 Cobra X3 and haven't needed the full size yet. Here are some of my thoughts. If you really have production/time issues for small items, you could afford to run multiple Cavewrights at the same time. I do find the big table handy for keeping multiple smaller projects on the table at the same time. If you are always doing small - one of a kind projects, then a much smaller unit is probably a better choice. If you intend to run limited production such as cutting pieces from a bigger sheet of plywood, then bigger and more powerful would be more useful. If you run for multiple hours per day, then you may want something a bit more industrial. If you don't have the space and/or you need portability and want to get into the hobby/business then the Carvewright seems like a reasonable entry price. If you run a hobby then support/parts probably not as critical - if running a business then uptime and support is much more critical. It really comes down to what you want to make and do you want to spend a bit extra to have the flexibility/performance. If for some reason you think you may not stick with it then a lower entry price may be the way to go. I went with Jim's advice and bought as much as I could the first time. I usually stick with my interests for the long term and will invest appropriately.

[Gordon Crago]

Paul,
I had a 4x8 router in my basement for a few years. I built mine based on the Joe's Hybrid design (plans from http://joescnc.com/themachines-hybrid.php) similar to Joe's machine shown in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwEkrQo6740

Bringing it down to the basement piece by piece and assembling it in place was no problem, like the ShopBot all of the parts were manageable. After a while though, bringing sheet goods to the basement got to be a real pain (and my entrance stairs aren't even U-shaped. ) If I had to do it again, I might have built the machine in a large shed in my backyard instead of putting it in the basement. Of course, I don't know what type of work you're planning and you'd have to factor in the cost to build the shed and heat it all winter. I bring this up only because I totally downplayed the hassle factor in my head before deciding to put the CNC in my basement. When using the table saw I would break down sheet goods in my driveway before taking materials to the basement. With the CNC, using entire sheets is my usual workflow. Also, the machine takes up a big portion of my basement shop.

The CNC Router Parts kit mentioned is a good option as is building a Joe's Hybrid machine. Both will end up costing about 3k-5k USD depending on options. Of course either of these will require you to invest lots of time and learn more about building the machine. I can talk to you more by email if you're interested in learning more about either.

It's hard to go wrong buying a ShopBot. They have great support and a huge community of users. I've used a PRS Alpha at our nearby Fab Lab. It's a very capable machine. I only wish they used Mach 3 or WinCNC instead of their proprietary control software -- but that might just be because I'm not as familiar with their software.

I've heard great things about CAMaster equipment but other than the desktop Stinger (which is smaller than 48x48) the base tables appear to be welded so I don't think you'll be able to get it down the stairs. I think any other industrial grade router 4x4' or larger is going to have a welded frame.

Hope this helps.

Gordon

[Mick A Martin]

CAMaster machine come fully assembled but you can remove the gantry if needed, there are many CAMaster owners that have machines in there basement. It would take a few people to lift the machine down the stairs but it can be done.

Here is a picture of a 4' x 8' machine through a standard door, I think the biggest machine through a standard door was a 5' x 10' machine ...... where there is a will there is a way....

door frame.jpg

[james mcgrew]

yes there are SOLID reasons for a CAMaster welded frame!!!!

[Connie Ratisseau]

i agree the CW has come a long way !!,, i just wish they would offer the retrofit to all of us who were guinea pigs and purchased the junk at the outset!! and we aint talking about a few people, until one makes thier reputation right it will always be bad!

James, you are a very active and influential person on this forum. I know a lot of people listen to and respect your opinion.

You purchased one of the very first machines back in 2007, a CompuCarve from Sears, during which time, you received parts under warranty. Since December of 2007, I do not see any activity on your account, notes with issues or purchases made. I know you and I talked awhile back about you dusting all of the cobwebs off of your machine and you getting it upgraded with the new CarveTight Spindle, but nothing since.

As for your wish that "they would offer the retrofit"..., LHR has. The CarveTight Spindle, which comes standard on any Version C machine, was designed to also fit any "A" or "B" model machine. It's just not FREE as I'm assuming you want, but at just $120 with rebate applied is even less expensive than the cost of a router, which most other personal-sized CNC's require as a separate purchase and a frequent replacement.

I don't want to sound like I'm doing unsolicited "sales pitch" of the CW, so I won't go into all the changes that have been made in the 5 years since you were last an active user of the machine. I am, however, allowed on here to answer specific questions and refute damaging accusations.

The CarveWright Version C has a great reputation; ask any current user of the system. It is, of course, not spotless as with any product there will be those that are unhappy and those are the ones that will post. It does, however, get rather old that there are certain individuals that continue to slam the machine and company every time they see it mentioned, despite the fact that they have no recent knowledge or first-hand experience of the current machine or updates available.

Connie

[james mcgrew]

i do need to agree with you and tried to qualify it with "the carvewright has come a long way!! and it has, after i went full cnc i never did contact them again the parts were the same and did the same thing the first ones did, i am sure the spindle upgrade will do the trick and i keep thinking i am gonna fix it and keep it for a kick, it was fun and was a gateway to what i have now,,, i do look i on the cw forum and am well aware the newer machines are far and away from mine !

[AL Ursich]

+2 for the CarveWright. I spent many hours reading the Shop Bot and this Forum before I saw the 2007 TV Ad for the CarveWright. A Shop Bot was on my wish list for 5 years down the line. I ordered the CW that night and was on the waiting list. I use it for my Sign, Tourist Product and Fire Dept. Accountability Tag business. It meets my needs very well.

I had all the same problems everyone else had and one by one we fixed them as LHR adapted and came out with the many fixes that today has made my "A" 2007 version as reliable as a new "C" version. I just did a 1000 Plus Cut Motor Hour Overhaul and is written about in the 250 hour Maintenance Requirement Thread. I post under Digitalwoodshop on the CW Forum and spend a bunch of time writing Helpful posts for users to troubleshoot and repair the CW.

Many used machines can be had for as little as $500.00 and can be registered and activated in the new users name. Many have problems and can be easily fixed. The last machine I bought (#4) for less than $500.00, had the new 14 pin FSC Z Cable installed. But the slack was too short and when the head went to the Bit Flag it Ripped the Cable. A Simple Fix, but by this time, the user had reached his limit..

I never got the number, but Sears bought Thousands of Machines in 2007 and as we found the issues and fixed them, the problem was the thousands of machines still sitting in Sears.... At least once a month I post instructions to a user that has dusted off a 2007 "A" version now wanting to get it running..... A check list of things to check and fix and you have a reliable machine...

So if you are willing, the CW can be a Hobby Machine that is very useful and reliable in a shop. The Homegrown Rotary Jig developed by a User is something to see.... Uses the Carrier Board to rotate the round as the Y and Z make the cuts.... Like a Laser Rotary, Board Length = Blank Diameter...

So it really comes down to where your business is going... Small Signs and stuff like I do and the CW is Great... Had I gone with a Cabinet Making Shop cutting Plywood Sheets then the Shop Bot or the likes would be perfect.... I have posted my work before.

I ran into Guy Mathews the other day and He was excited about a project to build a 10 station CNC using Air Operated Dental type tools if I got it right.... Many here know his work in many areas of CNC.... I had even thought of loaning him one of my CW's just to play with....

Speaking of Going Back.... It's like a Ink Jet Color Printer then going to a Laser Toner Color Printer.... Yes, I would never go back... But the Ink Jet does have it's place.... I made $20K last year with my Ink Jet Sublimation Printer and the CW cutting Tag Blanks. Turning a $20.00 12 x 24 sheet of FRP into $500.00 of finished product. So for ME.... The CW is a WELCOME Addition to my shop.

AL