Which plane HA or LA, pro and con?

[Craig Behnke]

i machine joint and face my boards, i want to start finishing them with a smoother plane. i use a lot of very figured maple (quilted, birdseye, tiger) and from what i've heard/read so far, I should use a high angle (e.g. 50, 55, 62 degree) to minimize tearout. I looked at a LN #4 with the high angle frog, but it's at the top end of my budget. I also looked at a Veritas bevel up smoother that I can use with a 38 or 50 degree blade to get a total 50 or 62 degree angle of cut.

Question is, does it matter if the angle of cut is from the frog (Lie-Nielsen) or from the blade (Veritas)?

Also, since I can only afford 1 plane right now, is the Veritas BU in more versatile because for the price of one LN, I can get a Veritas plus a few extra irons with differing angles?

Any help appreciated. First time using handplanes again since woodshop in high school 25 yrs ago.

[David Weaver]

You'll probably have an easier time with the LAS or BUS or whatever acronym the low angle planes go by in terms of trouble woods.

If I were buying an LN plane, I would go for a standard angle and learn to use the chipbreaker effectively before I'd go to a 55 degree frog.

If a user can't get the hang of the chipbreaker (which is something that does take a little bit of experience in setting), then the option of adding a tiny back bevel of anything up to 25 degrees is always there. The steeper the angle, the harder to push and the duller the finish.

http://planetuning.infillplane.com/h...ker_study.html

Note that the projection of the iron past a 50 degree chipbreaker (that's the angle of the face on the chipbreaker, not the bed angle) has to be around .005" (which really isn't that hard to set) to actually do anything. Once it's set there, my experience is that you can push the plane straight up a board (just like you can with a good infill) for or against the grain and have no tearout. A properly made infill does move against the grain a little easier, though, but the effect is the same on the wood.

For some reason it took me about 5 years to overcome my laziness in setting the chipbreaker, and what was once a minute or two of fiddling to get it set just right is now about an extra 15 minutes.

Chris Griggs will probably get a giggle out of this. As a long time single iron proponent, I just mentioned something to him about how I probably wouldn't bring a discussion like this to the open forum because setting the second iron properly is a bit heavy for beginners. But it is worth learning. I think my $11 millers falls smoother can now just about run with my .004" mouthed infill smoother, and now it doesn't take me long to set the second iron right. Either plane can run straight against the grain in all but the most brittle quartered stuff (wilbur sent me a rotten piece of wood a couple of years ago, curly makore, that caused some grief, but that's the only thing I can think of). You're unlikely to encounter anything like that in curly maple or birdseye maple.

(not that I don't think a single iron infill plane with a super tight mouth is a worthy plane, they are fantastic, but the accuracy in production costs money or time. Setting a second iron is cheap, as long as it's done properly, and it turns thin stock irons into performance champs).

[Jeff Hamilton Jr.]

I would strongly consider either LV or LN's BU #5, or Jack. You can hone a micro bevel to whatever angle you desire (thus saving the time of regrinding the ENTIRE bevel), face joint - or smooth - shorter boards and DEFINATELY do finish smoothing. I have all of LV's BU planes and really enjoy them. The jack is by far the hardest worker. Christian Bevskoot (sp?) just published an article in FWW not too long ago about this being the ONLY plane you need. I tend to agree (even though I exceeded it in # of planes!)

Good luck.

[David Weaver]

The jack is by far the hardest worker. Christian Bevskoot (sp?) just published an article in FWW not too long ago about this being the ONLY plane you need. I tend to agree (even though I exceeded it in # of planes!)

Good luck.

I have, and use that plane quite often. Not using a power planer or jointer in general, my wrists just ache at the thought of having that as my only plane. (it's great on the shoot board, though).

[Prashun Patel]

I had a bevel up smoother (Veritas) for a while. I find the low angle planes a little more prone to track marks than the regular angle planes - not that I've sampled a million of them.

The Veritas Bevel up smoother shares a blade with the low angle jack, so if you ever get one of those, you can share the blade. However, if I were to do it again, I'd get the Low angle smoother (confusingly, it's different from the Bevel up smoother - but does NOT share a blade with the low angle jack) because the LA smoother has flat sides that allow it to be used for shooting - something that cannot be done with the BU smoother. I find this more versatile than blade angle.

I don't think you can go wrong with either. I believe it'll come down to personal preference.

[Brian Loran]

I'll give a vote for the LNs with HAFs. I think it comes down to which plane feels better to you since both will do the job. I have BU planes and LN planes with HAFs. I always reach for the LNs first. In fact I just ordered a LN 7 to replace my LV BUJ. The BUs are great planes and certainly do the job, I just find the LNs easier to hold and adjust.

[Curt Putnam]

The bevel up option also gives you the option of using toothed blades. The result can then be easily cleaned up with a finely set smoother or else a scraper. The BU road is much easier for beginners (I know). If you go down that road, get a toothed blade and get several 25° blades. You can then hone a micro-bevel of whatever angle(s) you see fit.

[Tony Shea]

I'm also a fan of the BD style LN planes. As David suggested, getting the LN with the standard 45* angle frog really can do a whole lot more than you might expect. Between being able to tighten the mouth up to almost nothing and setting the chipbreaker up correctly you will struggle to find knarley enough grain that cannot be planed smooth. Although getting the extra frog on top of this setup is a fairly large expense, it is an option if you do encounter the nasty stuff that can't be smoothed out by this original setup. I'm currently working with some of the hardest and curliest maple I've ever seen and my #4 LN Bronze smoother with standard angle frog will plane this stuff to a glass smooth surface. The problem I had was with my machines, they left some terrible chipout and dulled extremely fast. So I had to thickness all the boards by hand with a toothed iron in the LV LA Jack plane in order not to create an unfixable surface for my #4 smoother. It will be a long time before I will want to work the rest of that wood on another project, just nasty stuff.

I personally just like the feel and adjustments on the Stanley type BD planes. They're just more natural for me. BUT, I would also not be without my LV LA Jack either. Tuff decisions for sure.

[Craig Behnke]

The BU road is much easier for beginners (I know)..

Curt, thanks for that info. I'm a noob at the hand tools. haven't used a plane since high school wood shop....have been using powertools and sandpaper but I see the difference in that method vs. a nice handplaned finish, so I want to give it a shot.

What was easier about the BU planes? set-up? actual use? etc.

[Jeff Hamilton Jr.]

What was easier about the BU planes? set-up? actual use? etc.

Simply put, the BU's are easier to set up and use; no chip breaker to adjust and no screws hidden behind the tote to adjust. The mouth of a BU (LV anyway) is opened and closed by simply turning and sliding the front knob.

That said, I do agree with the comments that a good BD plane is hard to beat; I regularly use a Clifton #4, a WoodRiver #3 and an 80-yr old Stanley #6; but you were asking, in the OP, about ONE plane, easy to use and possibly swapping blades to get different angles.

As such, I stand by my response that the LV jack, or Smoother if you want a pound or so lighter is your best bet.

Others may differ .... But heck! That's what makes this a great place!

[Andrew Nielsen]

The jack is by far the hardest worker. Christian Bevskoot (sp?) just published an article in FWW not too long ago about this being the ONLY plane you need. I tend to agree (even though I exceeded it in # of planes!)


Jeff,

Are you able to tell me if that's a magazine article (and issue number/date) or an online content ?

Many thanks,
Andrew

[Curt Putnam]

Curt, thanks for that info. I'm a noob at the hand tools. haven't used a plane since high school wood shop....have been using powertools and sandpaper but I see the difference in that method vs. a nice handplaned finish, so I want to give it a shot.

What was easier about the BU planes? set-up? actual use? etc.

I commenced trying to learn planes and planing with some curly soft maple. Really bad idea. OK, what's easier about my LV BU planes?

It's easier to get a blade in & out. The LVs have adjustable throats - loosen the knob move plate, tighten knob instead of having to move the whole frog (on Baileys that requires you to pull the blade assembly.) The LVs have set screws to maintain lateral position. Once you get it right, set the screws and its always right. Makes it easier to hone the blade. On a BD plane, you have to pull out the blade assembly, find a screwdriver, tale off the cap iron, hone the blade and fiddle to put it all back together. Then you have to go through all the depth adjustment nonsense again. On the LV, pull blade, hone blade, put back in and go back to work. My Baileys have, at best, a three full turn slop between advance and retract, a couple have a 5 turn slop. Don't know about LN planes, but my LVs seem to have less than 1/4 turn slop. All of that makes it much easier for a noob like me. It works just like you think it should. It easy (and cheaper) to determine the effect of different blade angles. Just keep a few around at the basic angles - they all fit the BUS and the LAJs (Jack & Jointer). They just work. The same can be said of the LN planes but you only get one plane out of it. I don't think much interchanges.

With all of that said, if you can find somebody local to show you the ropes (so you KNOW the way a well tuned plane should behave) you can get by with some vintage Stanleys as a start. A well tuned smoother and a card scraper will handle almost anything if money is a real object. If you can I recommend the LV BUS or LAJ (the low angle jack.)

[Jeff Hamilton Jr.]

Are you able to tell me if that's a magazine article (and issue number/date) or an online content ?

It is issue #217 - probably about April 2011. Here's the link, but I pay for online access so not sure it'll pop up if you don't. http://www.finewoodworking.com/ToolG....aspx?id=33799

[Pohgunn Ooi]

G'day Craig,

You should consider the "Hong Kong-Style High-Angle Smooth Plane" from LV. It is very good on figured timber and, if you turn the blade around, works as a scraper as well.

A simple but very versatile plane. Together with the little brother here, they make a good smoothing set.

I own and use both these planes and they are extremely good for the money.

Regards,

Gunn

[Bill Haumann]

Getting your hands on a well tuned plane first so you know how they should behave. LN tool event, local woodworking club, etc.
My personal favorite smoother is a 55 degree Old Street Tool smoother, grain direction is pretty much irrelevant with it. There's a considerable wait for them though (mine was about ten months).
You should also factor in the cost of a sharpening setup if you don't have one now. You'll need to keep any smoothing plane well honed if you want it to keep performing. Two stones (waterstones, arkansas, or diamond) and a strop would be a minimum need there, or there's the sandpaper route.