How to best remove brush strokes from Waterlox finish

[Alan Lightstone]

BTW, this may be a heat/humidity related question, so it's probably right up Scott's alley. When wiping on Waterlox, 3 quick coats with each successive coat as soon as the surface is not tacky, I'm running into an issue where it is taking more like 90 minutes to get non-tacky, instead of 45-60 minutes.

Is there a period of time after which the coats won't really meld into on another, and it pays to wait 24 hours before the next coat (I know, I know, the manufacturer says wait 24 hours, but multiple people are extremely happy putting on very thin wipe-on coats in batches of 3-4 an hour apart, then letting it dry for 24 hours until putting on the next sequence of 3 coats.) In other words, is 2 hours too long between wipe-in coats? 90 minutes?

[Prashun Patel]

I do my coats 12hours apart when wiping. The reason is that it feels smoother during application. If I do coats even 2hours apart, there is some drag. That may be in my head, but a smoother application allows me to wipe it on quickly and seems to lay better which prevents me from over wiping.

[Alan Lightstone]

No, I'm getting the drag too, and it isn't laying down smoothly.

[Prashun Patel]

Alan, it is my nonprofessional opinion that your can is bad. You seem to know what yr doing and have tried enough times that I'm betting it's nothing about your technique or environment.

[Alan Lightstone]

Actually, I came to that conclusion too. Now I'm running into it with a new can.

[Mark Levitski]

When wiping on Waterlox, 3 quick coats with each successive coat as soon as the surface is not tacky, I'm running into an issue where it is taking more like 90 minutes to get non-tacky, instead of 45-60 minutes.

Alan, I would not wipe any more coats, however thin, onto the previous until it is cured, not just non-tacky (IMO, the 24 hours at least). You can bury the underlying coats and get some kind of delayed drying, tacky mess. The directions on the can are not meant to be read between the lines. My opinion. I'm not an expert finisher. I just play one in my woodshop. .

Forgive me, maybe I'm not zeroing in on your problem exactly.

[Prashun Patel]

ok, and just to confirm: You are NOT thinning with MS or anything else, right?

What kind of sandpaper are you using between coats? Are you wetsanding?

[Sam Murdoch]

Alan, I would not wipe any more coats, however thin, onto the previous until it is cured, not just non-tacky (IMO, the 24 hours at least). You can bury the underlying coats and get some kind of delayed drying, tacky mess. The directions on the can are not meant to be read between the lines. My opinion. I'm not an expert finisher. I just play one in my woodshop. .

Forgive me, maybe I'm not zeroing in on your problem exactly.

+1 to this. Working one wet coat over another keeps all the layers from drying properly. I think

Sam

[Alan Lightstone]

OK. Back to my previous technique of wiping on coats 24hrs apart. The problem will then occur at the end. I'm not sure if I'll be able to rub down the surface.

I have done multiple pieces with Waterlox as wiping varnish waiting 24hrs between coats in the past, including this piece. The surface looks great when finished, but not semi-gloss, or satin. It is gloss. SWMBO wants semi-gloss. Not sure how I'll get there. I can try to gently rub out the surface a month after I'm done again, but it didn't work out well last time. I need a thicker final coat so that there won't be any witness lines.

Doing three coats 1 hr apart was a suggestion to get the coats to burn together and get thicker coats. Clearly not working for me, but it does very well for others.


I burned through an entire can of Waterlox S/F applying it, and later having to sand it off. Kind of like Sisyphus.

[Alan Lightstone]

ok, and just to confirm: You are NOT thinning with MS or anything else, right?

What kind of sandpaper are you using between coats? Are you wetsanding?

No thinning whatsoever. Was not sanding between coats in the groups of three. If they came out crappy, I was sanding with Festool Brilliant-2 320 or 400 grit discs with a Festool ETS 150/3 with Festool vac to remove the crappy coats and sand until flat. It's non-stearated paper. Then vacuum, wipe off with paper towel and DNA, wait an hour so it's absolutely dry (which it is in a couple of minutes) and recoat.

My present game plan is to wipe on individual coats 24 hrs apart as when I made this piece.

[Sam Murdoch]

You are my finishing hero Alan. You've definitely got stick-to-itness no matter what the Waterlox does.
I'm sorry that it has been such a frustration for you but for whatever it's worth you have not been alone
in such a experience/ment, though others have given up sooner and broken out the Benjamin Moore
Here's to good results

Sam

[Prashun Patel]

Alan,

I'm surprised you haven't experienced Waterlox SF in the past to settle down to semigloss, as have I. Yr right, it goes on garishly glossy, but settles down to a solid semigloss after a couple weeks.


Looking at yr pics again, the lines appear to be just too thick brush strokes that you've not been able to sand off. I now - unfortunately - am in support of scraping and sanding the surface to flat again, and redoing the whole thing. This time, I'd wipe, though. Doing 3 coats in a day or brushing is just a shortcut; taking yr time (12-24hrs) between coats will at worst lengthen yr time to completion, and at best might improve yr results.

[Alan Lightstone]

Yeah, Prashun. Wiping it is. Two coats on now (24hrs apart), and the surface looks good, and, of course is glossy.

Of a number of pieces of furniture in the house with Waterlox, they are still pretty glossy almost a year later. Probably less than when first made, but I would still characterize them as glossy, not-semi gloss. Also don't have that nice, texture to the touch you get by rubbing out.

Perhaps what I'm looking for is a glossy satin (or semi-glossy satin) finish.

I'm still left with the quandary of what to do when the wiped on coats are finished and cured for a month. I have no confidence whatsoever that a wiped on coat of Waterlox is sufficiently hard/thick to rub out. I'm going to try a test piece with multiple wiped on coats of Waterlox, followed by spraying on several coats of Target Coatings EM6000 which will burn in to a single thicker coat. I'm wondering whether or not a thicker, clear top coat can be successfully rubbed out, yet still have the beautiful Waterlox coloring and chatoyance underneath.

[Prashun Patel]

"...no confidence...that a wiped on coat of Waterlox is sufficiently hard/thick to rub out."

Especially if you're just trying to rub out to a satin/semigloss. If you are trying to build to a high gloss, then it's best to have a few thick coats on there so they can be perfectly leveled through aggressive sanding.

When rubbing out to satin or semigloss, perfectly level is a *little* less critical. Just don't rub too hard.

[Scott Holmes]

Alan you can get to semi gloss after a week or so without much effort. Get the finish built up with say 4-6 wipe on coats and then let it cure for a few days. Buffing should not remove enough finish to get witness lines.

0000 steelwool will give you a satin finish. You will need a deluxing cream, buffing cream or polish to go to semi-gloss. No need to go the full rubout routine to get an already nice, smooth, flat, gloss to a semi-gloss.