Getting a HVLP system... need advice

[mreza Salav]

I am thinking of getting a HVLP system, mostly to use for applying finish/stain to wood (but occasionally use for paint if needed).
I should say up front that I have zero experience with spray systems and would like to get something that won't need to upgrade.
I have applied finish to my woodworking projects (shellac, polyurethane, etc) by hand so far.
I don't have a spray booth either, so mostly applying it in a garage and I know I should get some good ventilation. I should
only use water based finishes.

I have done some research and it appears that Fuji products are good and you can get an excellent (pro like) finish without breaking the bank.
Am I right to assume that I can get excellent result with them?

Have a bunch of questions for those more experienced people here:

1- A general question is about the amount of sanding needed between different layers of finish. Is the procedure the same with spray system or will it reduce the amount of sanding needed between different applications of finish, perhaps because you can get a more even finish each time? I hate sanding!

2- is the MM4 series a good option? Is the upgrade to Q4 worth it? I understand it's the same system with a noise reduction layer added.

3- Should I get a gravity fed gun instead of the standard one?

4- What are the applications/differences/uses of a whipping hose and a flex hose?

5- What would be a good starting package (the system, hoses, niddles, cups, etc)?

What should I be asking that I didn't ask?

comments/suggestions are welcome.

[Chris Padilla]

First, I'm no pro to finishing but I bought a pricey ($1k) HVLP system many many years ago (~10) from Apollo. It is a 4 stage turbine Apollo1000.

Let me tell you, it sounds like a Boeing 747 taking off...that is the ONLY thing I dislike about it. Otherwise, I feel like a pro spraying everything from shellac to latex paint.

Let's me tackle your questions:

(1) I don't think spraying changes sanding practice. One still gets things embedded in the finish or the sprayer gets too close or too far away. The finish could dry a bit before hitting the surface or you get too close and bam, sags runs and drips. There is always that damn insect that gets stuck in your finish, too.

(2) Back when I was researching, it was down to Apollo and Fuji. I think the Apollo guy was willing to wheel and deal with me and threw in a few extras to entice me over. If you can get a quieter system, it might be worth it. I hate hate HATE how loud my system is but it performs beautifully so I just don ear protection and go for it.

(3) I have the standard plus Apollo threw in a smaller one (easier to fit in some places and maneuver and a bit lighter). I have zero experience with gravity fed.

(4) Mine has the regular heavy-ish hose and then about 10' of smaller, lighter grey hose. I guess this is the whip hose part. Again, it makes it easier to move around and control and is lighter. Trust me, your forearm will get tired pressing the trigger off and on on large jobs. I'm not sure about the flex hose part.

(5) Again, the Apollo guy threw in a kit for me that has #1 - #5 needles/nozzles along with lots of replacement parts. You will wish you had a nice assortment of needles to deal with the different viscosities of finishes. Also, get a smaller cup as I said above. Also, get a nice cleaning kit with foxtail brushes and small cleaning needles to get into the tiny holes.

[Bob Wingard]

I've had the APOLLO 800 system for a good number of years now, and it's been flawless. If the turbine noise bothers you, it can be purchased with an option to the gun itself which allows you to use either the turbine OR a standard air compressor ... it does the HVLP conversion inside the body of the gun itself. I've used it both ways, and cannot see any difference in performance. It's a quality system with great factory support ... worth consideration.

[Chris Padilla]

My (limited) understanding with the noisy turbine is that it does warm and dry the air feeding the gun, which is supposed to be beneficial. While a filter could dry the air from an air compressor, I don't think it warms it.

Now I'm not sure it matters much. Maybe it depends on what's being sprayed?

And like Bob's 800, my 1000 has been flawless.

[Gary Max]

Anther vote for the Apollo 1000---------it does get-r-done. The only trick I needed help with was getting the right needle to match the product I was shooting.

[David Hawxhurst]

and yet another vote for apollo. i have the 1035. 3m pps is the way go if you can afford it or and it later.

[Bob Wingard]

While the turbine DOES warm the air, I don't think it does anything to dry it ... in fact, warm air has the capacity to hold more moisture than cold air.

[Tom Willoughby]

Well since everyone is voting for Apollo, I'll vote for Fuji Spray since that is what I have. I am certainly not an experienced sprayer but I certainly like what I can do with it.

1- A general question is about the amount of sanding needed between different layers of finish. Is the procedure the same with spray system or will it reduce the amount of sanding needed between different applications of finish, perhaps because you can get a more even finish each time? I hate sanding!

You may get away with less sanding with a spray gun due to the faster drying, which may mean less nibs in the finish. I am also able to spray a better finish than I could with a brush so that could save some sanding too. A gloss piano finish still requires hand finishing (at least for me).


2- is the MM4 series a good option? Is the upgrade to Q4 worth it? I understand it's the same system with a noise reduction layer added.

I have the Q4 and I don't find the noise offensive but I don't have any other turbines to compare it to. If you don't mind wearing ear protection, I would not spend the extra money. You'll be amazed at how fast you can spray a coat.

3- Should I get a gravity fed gun instead of the standard one?

I personally really like the gravity gun. I had the bottom siphon cup previously and to clean it I needed to have the turbine running while spraying water (I use water based finishes) until it was clean. I typically did this outside. With my gravity gun, I take the gun to the sink and run water through it without any need for the turbine. The gravity gun doesn't hold as much as the bottom cup but this hasn't been a drawback for me.

4- What are the applications/differences/uses of a whipping hose and a flex hose?

I have the whip hose and I believe that it is to allow greater flexibility when manouvering the gun without the heavy hose weighing it down. There may also be some cooling effects with the whip hose as well but I'm not sure.

5- What would be a good starting package (the system, hoses, niddles, cups, etc)?

I use the #3 and #4 set up with the Fuji and have been able to spray pretty much everything when thinned to the proper viscosity.

I don't think that you'll go wrong with either the Apollo or Fuji spray systems. When you get it, invest in a role of brown packing paper and practice spraying water. You'll get a feel for what the gun adjustments do and you will be able to see your water spray pattern on the brown paper.

Have fun!

Tom

[mreza Salav]

Thanks to all for the comments/suggestions, keep them coming.
I seems Fuji is more popular here in Canada and maybe Apollo is more in the US.
How does Apollo compare to Fuji? I have to check into that too as I'm not very familiar with it.
I have heard very good reviews (including customer support) for Fuji. Is it the same for Apollo?

[Bob Wingard]

How does Apollo compare to Fuji?

About the same as FORD vs. CHEVY ... pretty much a matter of personal preference.

[Scott Weinmann]

I am in the same boat looking for an HVLP system only I have been looking at the MM 3. From everyones experience would it be worth it to get a used MM 4 for the right price? I plan on spraying WB varnish but may try some paints eventually.

[Mark W Pugh]

Thanks to all for the comments/suggestions, keep them coming.
I seems Fuji is more popular here in Canada and maybe Apollo is more in the US.
How does Apollo compare to Fuji? I have to check into that too as I'm not very familiar with it.
I have heard very good reviews (including customer support) for Fuji. Is it the same for Apollo?

Also, call these guys. They can answer your question and put you in the right direction of what you need.

http://www.paintsprayersplus.com/c=L...OMbQzVow61Zuk/

[Edward Clarke]

I don't think that you'll go wrong with either the Apollo or Fuji spray systems. When you get it, invest in a role of brown packing paper and practice spraying water. You'll get a feel for what the gun adjustments do and you will be able to see your water spray pattern on the brown paper.

Have fun!

Tom

Now that is freaking brilliant! Thank you so very very much for that tip!!!

I've had a brand new Apollo 800 system for years and have never been able to get up the courage to try using it. I've always been afraid that I would screw up something that I worked hard to build or that I'd fail at cleaning the gun and make the whole thing useless. Practicing with either distilled water or alcohol on brown paper ( I plan on using shellac ) is the perfect solution to my fears.

I picked shellac to start with because if I mess up on the cleaning then I can always dump the whole gun into a gallon of denatured alcohol and dissolve away my troubles.