How would you guys make this table top?

[keith micinski]

I have a woman that wants a table top made out of 2 inch thick Walnut wrapped in a band and the corners mitered. How can I do this with out the miter's splitting from the expansion of the field pieces. The top is 60 long and 36 wide. The band is probably going to be around 4 inches wide. I am not going to be using that many small boards it will probably be 4 boards depending on what my lumber guy can mill up. I want to use something with some figure on it so he is checking his logs to see what he has and will be milling it up next week.

[Jamie Buxton]

The short answer is that you can't make it the way she wants. If you must have the mitered border, the field cannot expand. You could use bandsawn veneer on a plywood substrate. Or if she really must have solid lumber in the field, you have to let it move. Put no border on the table, or just put breadboard ends on it.

[keith micinski]

Ya,those were the answers I already new. I was hoping for some magical answer that I wasn't smart enough to know. I am not equipped to do veneering that big and the mitered corners seem to be a really big deal to her because I originally designed it with a breadboard end and she chose this from a photo I had instead. I am thinking may be I can make a v notch in between each board joint and then when I get to the outside I could actually leave the sides floating and the v notch would sort of hide that. The only place the long band boards are actually attached is at the mitre. I would spline the mitre to reinforce it but I am not sure if this would be a strong enough joint. I would pin the breadboard end with over size holes to allow for that movement.

[Sam Murdoch]

I reiterate what you already know - THIS CAN'T BE DONE WITH SOLID WALNUT - unless your client doesn't mind the open miters. Jamie has said it all.

You can make it like a door panel but that would mean:

1) Leaving an 1/8" reveal around the entire perimeter of the center field.

2) The frame would be twice as thick as the center panel or more

3) The panel would be set to float within a mortise in the frame - using space balls as my first choice. It could be a solid wood glue up in this case.

4) The miters need to be reinforced joints - not just glued butts.

Don't let your client drive your design/woodworking car. There are laws of woodworking that can't be violated by money without much unhappiness later.

Good luck leading her through the process.

Sam

[Jim Matthews]

What if it were treated as frame and panel at the edges?

With a groove in the walnut all the way around, you could fit the ends of each, and the outermost sides with Space Balls.
This implies that there will be a seasonal gap, each Winter. Could your client tolerate that?

[keith micinski]

This is what I was thinking of doing, I guess I didn't describe it very well. I am going to try and talk her into just a breadboard end but if I can't I guess frame and panel is probably the way I'll have to do it.

[Will Blick]

forget the middle of the table, at 4" outer frame ONLY, the miter joint will open in time from expansion / contraction with solid lumber.

I like the idea of buying veneered ply with solid wood banding to disguise the ply edges. Maybe an accent color so it becomes a design feature. To prevent the Walnut center from pushing / pulling the frame apart, join center boards at end grain to the short sides of the frame, with loose tenon joinery, tight, but not glued, as wood moves on its width. This will allow movement. The bottom of the frame can act as a housing as well to support the center boards... a lot of design work to accomplish this task....and you will still have slight gaps between the long grain side Walnut and the frame during dry periods / contraction. Lots of math to determine potential wood movement, so you allow min. gap, which might not be acceptable to client. Clearly a high risk project... but interesting

[ian maybury]

+1 on the problems inherent in a mitre - it'll risk the joints opening and closing as wood changes in width. That said there's apparently ways and means, because I know of one commercially produced coffee table with a roughly 4in x 1in mitred perimeter frame done that way in what might be cherry (or something tropical) that has lasted for many years indoors without problems.

ian

[Paul Incognito]

I'd use 3/4 plywood for the field and apply a solid wood frame. If you get some A-1 plywood that isn't bookmatched or slip matched it'll be hard to tell that it isn't solid wood once the edges are applied.
My 2cents.
Paul

[Prashun Patel]

Veneer over MDF for the core. Mitered half lap hard wood for the edge band.

[Ruhi Arslan]

.... depending on what my lumber guy can mill up. I want to use something with some figure on it so he is checking his logs to see what he has and will be milling it up next week.

If the lumber to be milled from the log, how long would you need to wait for the lumber to be ready for use?

[Jeff Heath]

During my career as a professional cabinetmaker and furniture maker, I would occasionally come across this exact scenario with a customer who wanted to dictate how a certain project was to be built or constructed. It's always a delicate task managing the difference between massaging customers into understanding what can and cannot be done on a certain project, and just doing it there way. Doing it their way can often lead to an unhappy customer base if it continues. 80% of my work comes from referrals, and they all seem to know each other.

If I were you, I would sit down with her and explain exactly what's going to happen to her table if you build it the way she wants it. The miters are definitely going to come apart. If you build this table with a frame and panel construction method, you will also have to explain to her about the gap inside the perimeter of the frame that is going to be the favorite hiding place for food crumbs, and possibly even nastier living creatures down the road.

There's a reason why she's hiring you. She has confidence in your capabilities to deliver a handsome looking piece of furniture that she will cherish a very long time after the check she writes you clears. Explain to her that you want her to still respect your professionalism 5 to 10 years down the road when the table, as originally desired, would have otherwise exploded on her.

I'm guessing that any sane individual will listen to reason, respect you very much for offering viable alternatives, and remember clearly why she hired you in the first place to avoid such a potential disaster.

Jeff

[Peter Quinn]

Veneer over MDF for the core. Mitered half lap hard wood for the edge band.

This is your best idea. You could buy 1 1/2" MDF or MD ultralite (they make lots of thickness), slice it up just like your stock into 6-8" wide strips, add a shop sawn veneer, you could press this mechanically with basic clamps, spline these blanks for alignment, glue them back together into a top like a solid glue up, edge band with solid stock. All possible IMO with a basic TS and a decent 14" or better BS.

I suppose you could use a gapped ship lap or T&G set up, treat it like a door panel, use space balls, let it all float. But then you have something between a picnic table and a raised panel door for a top, and that certainly has its drawbacks aesthetically. So my thinking is make it a veneered unit, set up for that, or sell the top you can make.

[keith micinski]

I guess I didn't think about ripping the MDF and veneering each piece individually. I might lean this way. As far as the 4 inch banding opening up I have had pretty good success with a splined miter this big not opening up so I am not to worried about that. I am going to try and talk her out of the Mitre and barring that I am going to try veneering the individual pieces. I can only make my veneer about 3/16 to a 1/4 though because my bandsaw sucks so I try to stay away from veneering right now until I get a better bandsaw. Thanks for all of the help so far.

[Rick Fisher]

Part of the job of a professional is saying no and explaining why ..