New Shop = New Tools! Opinions Needed!

[gary Zimmel]

Welcome to the Creek Jeremy.
If I was to start over and had a 12 grand budget I would take the money budgeted for the mortiser, drum sander, and shaper and put it into the table saw budget.
My new shop would be built around a SawStop.. JMHO.
A good 8"jointer and 15" planer with shelix heads in them would be next.

[Dave Lehnert]

Have you considered Made in Canada, General tools (not General International), instead of buying Asian made?

Been reported that General woodworking tools (Made in Canada) is closing down production. Will only provide the General International line going forward.

[Salem Ganzhorn]

Although unisaws are nice I held out for a saw with a riving knife. I bought a G0691 and it has been worth the asking price.

I would look used for the bandsaw, jointer and planer. But if you can't find a used planer with a spiral head buy it new: they are worth it!!
Salem

[Jeremy Krohn]

My first question - what kind of woodworking do you intend to do? Your answer might impact our answers. In consideration of my first question I'm inclined to be in complete agreement with Larry Browning's two posts. Finally, if you can spend $ 1,000.00 on a router table - I'd encourage you to think of a Jet 1-1/2 hp shaper http://www.google.com/products/catal...MAA#ps-sellers More stable, more cutter options, easier adjustments and you aren't tying up a router. Anyway, let us know more and we may have more/better advice to offer.

Various projects but mainly furniture and some wooden toys.

[Jeremy Krohn]

Welcome to the Creek Jeremy.
My new shop would be built around a SawStop.. JMHO.
A good 8"jointer and 15" planer with shelix heads in them would be next.

Something to consider. What planer and jointer do you have? Do the positive aspects of a a 15" shelix outweigh the benefit of a 20" straight knife in your opinion?

[Andrew Pitonyak]

If you know people that own specific Grizzly products, that may help in that your friends will know the idiosynchrasies of those products. I might first consider what is important to me before make a specific decision. For example, a few items were very high on my list:

Dust collection must be very good. It seemed that the cabinet saws usually had better dust collection so that is what I bought.

Safe, very very safe. For me, this means that I did not want the motor hanging off the back of the saw and I also liked the SawStop blade stopping capability.

You get the idea..... Will you ever resaw? If so, you probably want some good capacity on the band saw. I built my own router table into the side table on the table saw. It was very fast and easy to do (and I am not that talented).

[Ray Newman]

Jeremy: a few questions first. Some of this you may have already considered, but did not specifically mention it.

Your building of 16x36 feet -- is that open floor space or outside overall dimensions? I ask because you desire some equipment with large footprints. Add a workbench, assembly table/area, possibly a cut off table for the table saw, storage for lumber and supplies, finishing, etc., you may become cramped for space. The large room in my residence and it is18x32 feet. Reviewing your equipment list vis-a-vis this room, I have a feeling that it will get cramped.

Make a very large scale drawing of the shop open floor space, including windows and doors, then make scale cut outs of the tool footprints to obtain a better idea of what and which tools will work better.

As for the shop construction, install the maximum amount of insulation possible. My detached shop, built in 2001, has R-21 wall insulation instead of R-19 required by code. Also upped the insulation in the roof. It has more than paid for itself in terms of comfort and heating costs. Same with windows. Quality windows become very inexpensive over their lifespan. One thing about windows: when placed higher up they keep out a miscreant's prying eyes and afford useable space below. Depending upon where you live, a security system might also be worthwhile.

Now to the specific tooling. Pay particular attention to Larry Browning’s two excellent posts. First: the best table saw possible! If I was shopping for a new table saw, I would seriously consider the Saw Stop for the safety aspect. Next , 8” jointer and 12” or 15” planer. Also pay particular attention to Larry Browning’s two excellent posts. When my old de Walt 12“ planner was not worth repairing, I bought a 15“ unit. Looking back now, another 12“ would have served just as well. A very efficient dust collector is a must. Especially since the shop will be closed up in the winter. Did I mention Larry Browning’s two posts?

As for shaper vs. router, see “Router or shaper“ at:
http://patwarner.com/router_or_shaper.html

Shapers are wonderful machines, but the tooling/cutters is not exactly inexpensive. A large router dedicated to router table use just might be better and more versatile.

Do you plan on running any air tools? Save room for a compressor. I spray via HVLP and water based products. On a warm day, 2 coats sanding sealer and 3 top coats are easily done.

[Carl Beckett]

Ok, I will chime in (without over analyzing) on the list. I helped my step father through this same process when he retired (you know, its pretty fun to walk into a shop and say you will take one of those... and one of those..... and that...... etc etc)

1) Tablesaw. Personally, I would buy a SawStop. But a riving knife at a minimum. And be sure to get some zero clearance inserts

2) Jointer. An 8" grizzly, fine. Actually, thats a fantastic jointer to start with!

3) Planer. I personally like the 15" jet I have, its been a workhorse

3.5) Dust collection (I added this in.... it can go at different priorities depending on how you feel about it)

4) Router table. Aiiii.... so many different ways to do this, but I find it gets used a lot.

Then clamps, clamps, blades, bits, some hand tools (hand planes, saws), electric hand tools (ROS, router, belt sander, Jig saw, etc etc), WOOD, WOOD, WOOD.

Pause..... MAKE A BUNCH OF STUFF....... including a WORKBENCH..... then consider:

5) Bandsaw.

6) Drum sander

7) More hand tools (and maybe you decide you are a neander and sell all the above?)

8) scroll saw (because you find out you like designs that require this)

9) lathe

etc etc etc. (specialized equipment for canoe building, or veneering, if thats what it turns out you like to do)

Im just echoing the advice to start with the basics, and then add as you determine what you need for the projects you want to do. If its possible to hold some $$ back for future consideration, do that. If not then go with some basics.

[Larry Browning]

Carl,
This is an awesome post! I like the way you organized it. Especially the idea of spending time accumulating clamps and other small shop tools (get an ROS for sure!). You should give this area lots of consideration. +1 on the making of the workbench. I also might add making your own router table to the list of MAKE A BUNCH OF STUFF! This is a very fun project.
Heck, you could go on for years and never make anything but shop stuff. Of course SWMBO might get a little testy after a while!

[Steve Griffin]

Couple random thoughts while I wake up this morning:

-Drum sander, while nice, is by far the easiest tool on your list to live without. How often to do plan on making drums anyway? Seriously, a 6" orbital hooked to a dedicated vacume would work well for hobbiest.

-Work bench. I always like to post my opinion, because it differs than many others. To me, the perfect size is 4x8 on wheels with storage underneath. I make mine out of floor joists and 4x4 and keep a piece of 1/4" melamine on top. This is a workspace, not an altar.

-Cluster your big machines in a circle around the dust collection. Remember, you don't need to align each machine perfectly square to the shop walls--sometimes angled works best. Try to share infeed and outfeed working zones between machines to save floorspace. Maybe line up planer/jointer with a door in case you need to mill an occasional really long piece.

-Miter saw is really important tool, as cross cutting is maybe the most common operation. This is a tool I like near the workbench, as you often are staging parts and making parts that go directly to a project. Also, a stop system like Kregs is an absolute must. (You wouldn't like a table saw with out a indexed fence would you?)

-Sheet good storage--vertical about 9' from front of table saw. You can then cut a sheet without ever having to fully lift it. --Slide it out, tilt down to the saw, rotate flat and rip away.

-Table saw mobile base? This is the last tool I'd like a mobile base on. You got outfeed table, storage cabinet for blades, connection to 220 and dust. Pick a good spot and be done with it.

Good luck and have fun!

[mreza Salav]

Welcome to SMC

Some good advice so far. One think I'd suggest you to consider is combo machines. You'd get better quality/brand machines for often very close to the budget you have.
For instance, you might be able to get a 12" J/P combo for the price of an 8" J + 15" planer.
I would seriously consider a more advanced tablesaw. I own a Sawstop and am quite happy. If I were you, I'd seriously consider a small slider with perhaps a shaper built in
(that way you can get a slot mortising attachment if you wan). Your budget for DC (including pipes/fittings) and air filteration will grow very easily.
I would not buy a mortising machine so soon, same with drum sander even though I have one (wait and see if you really need one).

[Don Jarvie]

It might be worth your while to talk to the General dealer. If their getting rid of the line they may also be discounting some of the tools.

I'd start with
Table Saw - Good one
Planer
Jointer - min 8 inches, 12 would be better
Dust collection

Then decide on what you need. Its nice to have the shop fund to go buy what you need.

[Eric DeSilva]

I liked the suggestion to think about used--I picked up a Unisaw w/50" Bies Fence, 8" Grizz jointer, 15" Grizz planer, 3HP Jet shaper, and Bridgewood floorstanding mortiser in used (but very very good condition) and would have saved well over $4K beyond the prices you have for similar pieces on your list. Takes some time to find the right deals, but start getting in the habit of looking at CL every day and see whether you think it might happen.

For me your question is an interesting exercise in "what would I have done differently," so I'll answer that way.

First I'd buy a Hammer or Felder sliding TS. I wasn't shopping for one when I started, and it is sort of irrelevant, since there is no way I could get one in my basement, but if I had a standalone shop like you, that would be #1 on my list.

Next I'd buy a jointer and planer. I'm fine with my second hand 8" jointer and 15" planer from Grizz. The combo machines seem attractive, but I like having standalone units so I can go back and forth with no real work.

Third would be setting up a good cyclone and dust collection system. With a planer, you will need one. I've been happy with my JDS. If I was starting from scratch with a standalone building, I'd be thinking about a separate enclosure, baffling, and venting outside.

Fourth would be some smaller stuff--I would definitely re-buy my Festool 5" ROS, my CT22, and my big Festool router. I'd also buy some Festool guides and I do like my Domino. And a pile of Jet parallel clamps. While none of those are big floorstanding machines, they all have pricetags that feel like they should be.

Fifth would be a bandsaw. I never liked the 14" PM that I found second hand, but love love love my Laguna 14SUV. I'd buy another 14SUV in a heartbeat.

I use my shaper and my mortiser, but, honest to god, I think I'd find ways around using them if I didn't have 'em. If I was doing a lot of mission furniture, the mortiser would probably be back on the list, but heck, I think I only paid $380 for it--less than a $1/pound.

[Jeremy Krohn]

Welcome to SMC

Some good advice so far. One think I'd suggest you to consider is combo machines. You'd get better quality/brand machines for often very close to the budget you have.
For instance, you might be able to get a 12" J/P combo for the price of an 8" J + 15" planer.
I would seriously consider a more advanced tablesaw. I own a Sawstop and am quite happy. If I were you, I'd seriously consider a small slider with perhaps a shaper built in
(that way you can get a slot mortising attachment if you wan). Your budget for DC (including pipes/fittings) and air filteration will grow very easily.
I would not buy a mortising machine so soon, same with drum sander even though I have one (wait and see if you really need one).

Any suggestions on combo models? Do you have one? My preference to date has been individual machines.

[Jeremy Krohn]

It might be worth your while to talk to the General dealer. If their getting rid of the line they may also be discounting some of the tools.

I'd start with
Table Saw - Good one
Planer
Jointer - min 8 inches, 12 would be better
Dust collection

Then decide on what you need. Its nice to have the shop fund to go buy what you need.

This combination of up front purchases seems to be the common suggestion. I think I'll stop into the General dealer near my house to talk this weekend. It may be worth considering if there are going to be discontinuing ( offset by the fact they may be defunct, possible losing warranty coverages etc).