Luthiers - What are the myths or misconceptions guitarist have about the instrument

[Greg Peterson]

Reading the thread about becoming a professional luthier was a bit like reading a horror story. I knew that more or less it was not going to have a happy ending.

There were some comments made about guitarists and their collective misconceptions or myths surrounding the instrument.

So, just what are some of the things guitarists think will give them that sound?

Full Disclosure - I have hacked, sliced and diced, mongrelized and destroyed perfectly fine guitars in the name of 'creating a signature sound'. Conclusion: I'm the same player and the only thing I have to show for it is a pile of pickups, speakers, gizmos, do-dads.

I've also come to realize that while there is a unique tone buried deep in a finely crafted guitar, it takes a talented and skilled hand to extract it.

[John Coloccia]

I think the biggest myth is the general idea that guitarists think they can tell the difference between things like:

- fret material ("I don't like stainless steel...it sounds brittle and too bright")
- old wood vs new wood
- different finishes on electrics (finish becomes significant on acoustics....even a thin finish can be 10% of the thickness of a guitar top!)
etc etc etc...

when in fact, time and time again it's pretty clear that generally we can't when you do a controlled experiment. But it doesn't matter. We're a superstitious bunch of know it alls, and I do think sometimes that it's really held back the evolution of the instrument.

[Shawn Pixley]

I'll add:

Zero fret
Through body vs stop mounted
Flipped pickups (Peter Green) affect.
"Overwound is always better"
Scalloped fretboards
String gauge

All of the above can have an effect on electric sound. But none are the holy grail of sound. I sometimes spend quite a bit of time getting my electrics dialed in to what I am looking for. But the sound I want from one guitar is not the sound I look for in another. I keep detailed notes by Guitar and amp settings. Sometimes these are better thrown away when working on a new song.

There is quite a bit of variation in some lines of guitars. I tested ~100 Les Pauls before I found one that was special. My plywood Danelectro Baritone can get unique sounds, but I don't think anyone would call it a fine instrument.

The amp and speaker breakup also have a great deal of influence on the sound. What works at low volumes may not work at higher volume. In short, there is no holy grail but many good ways to get the sound you are looking for. Experiment and have fun.

For accoustics, finish, size, bracing, neck joint, tone wood all can have significant effects on the sound.

[Jerrimy Snook]

Have you seen "It Might Get Loud"? Jimmy Page, Jack White and the Edge all sitting around talking about guitars and the sound they are looking for.

As a sound board tech, I think it is that elusive or particular sound that makes working with guitar players an exercise in patience. I have learned that the results are almost always better when the musician is content with their sound.

[Greg Peterson]

Guitarists, while not as dysfunctional as singers, tend to be a little fussy. Guitarist fixate on strings, pickup, finishes, cords, effects, picks while completely ignoring the amp or trying to get the amp to behave (or respond) in a manner that is inconsistent with its design. Matching the amp to the sound one is looking for is often times the most overlooked attribute. You simply can not get a Twin Reverb to sound like a Marshall Plexi.

Not to diminish what a artisan crafted guitar brings to the table, but it is a rare musician that is able to coax the finest details out of a custom, professional grade instrument.

As for acoustics, they are a whole other beast. I enjoy my D15, and for my skill/talent level I feel this is a great match. It is a very articulate instrument and I know it has more to offer than what I can get out of it. This instrument is far more responsive to my input than any acoustic I have owned previously. It was an epiphany to experience an acoustic instrument that is touch sensitive beyond my motor skills. Nice to know that as/if my technique advances this instrument will be up to the task of responding.

[Ryan Baker]

Allegedly, Eric Johnson claims to be able to tell whether the electricity powering his rig was hydro or nuclear generated!

The list of myths is essentially endless.

[Greg Peterson]

I've heard other extreme claims attributed to Eric Johnson. I don't understand the buzz about EJ. He is a truly talented and gifted player, but I think he is just extremely OCD about his guitar and rig. If he is able to hear the things he claims to be able to hear, more power to him. But the audience certainly can't hear the difference, whether they be live or listening to a recording.

[John Coloccia]

I've heard other extreme claims attributed to Eric Johnson. I don't understand the buzz about EJ. He is a truly talented and gifted player, but I think he is just extremely OCD about his guitar and rig. If he is able to hear the things he claims to be able to hear, more power to him. But the audience certainly can't hear the difference, whether they be live or listening to a recording.

There is definitely a difference between different brands of batteries, though. I can't hear it with modern effects, but if you listen to different brands in vintage, unbuffered effects there's a definite difference. I guess it's not too surprising that batteries behave differently under load depending on the details of their construction.

But then he starts doing weird things, like plugging cables in only a certain way around (getting the "polarity" right)....and I know unless the cable is damaged that shouldn't do a darn thing.

So the corollary to this is that there are things that people DON'T think make a difference that actually do. For example:

1) pick thickness and construction make a definite difference in tone
2) buffered effect pedals...I can't play through a buffered pedal anymore. Even my wife can hear the difference. The buffered pedals absolutely kill the dynamics. People swear to me up and down it doesn't matter.
3) general technique....how hard you fret...where you pick...palm mute (a light palm mute will not sound like a palm mute at all, but will merely kill off some of the harmonic content of the note). Things like that all have a very distinct effect on your tone and is part of what makes it very difficult to match another player's tone. You have to get the basic settings right AND copy his technique as well....the latter can be very difficult. Whenever I copy a player's tone, I refer to it an "impersonation", because it really is more like impersonating someone's voice and mannerisms than it is just dialing in a tone.

[Shawn Pixley]

I'd add to John's good list of things that do make a difference in the sound.

Tube amp vs SS
Class A vs Class AB
votage Sag in a class AB amp
power tube saturation/distortion vs preAmp saturation/distortion
Speaker selection
pickup height
strings (particularly in accoustic guitars)
the room in which you are playing

When I test a guitar that I would consider or purchase, I try to always use my amp and Settings. That way I can determine and some to some extent compare the guitars, minimizing the variables.

Lastly how the guitar is recorded (microphone, placement, etc...). It used to be the case that analog recording was sonicly superior, but these days the A/D converters have largely eliminated that.

[Greg Peterson]

Not to pick an argument, buttttt...

Tube amp vs SS

SS is getting pretty good these days. I would wager dollars to donuts that in a double blind test that the average guitarist would not be able to tell the difference. And certainly the listening audience would never be able to tell.

Class A vs Class AB

I've no horse in this race, but be aware there are some pretty credible amp builders that consider the class of operation nothing more than a marketing gimmick.

Voltage sag in a class AB amp

Tube rectified amps are the only circuits I know of that have sag. I love the sound of the early Marshalls, but I find myself fighting those amps. For years I could not understand why I disliked playing them. Once I got my hands on a tube rectified amp it was like coming home. I like sag and the dynamic, organic feel you get from it.

Speaker selection

Oh yes indeed. Huge difference. Amp, speaker, pickup (single coil/humbucker) is the descending order of importance in creating or emulating a sound. Everything else (strings, fret board, body, bridge...) are minor details that few players are really able to leverage. Get the right amp, speakers and pups and the rest you either have in your hands or you don't.

[Shawn Pixley]

Not to pick an argument, buttttt...



SS is getting pretty good these days. I would wager dollars to donuts that in a double blind test that the average guitarist would not be able to tell the difference. And certainly the listening audience would never be able to tell.


I've no horse in this race, but be aware there are some pretty credible amp builders that consider the class of operation nothing more than a marketing gimmick.


Tube rectified amps are the only circuits I know of that have sag. I love the sound of the early Marshalls, but I find myself fighting those amps. For years I could not understand why I disliked playing them. Once I got my hands on a tube rectified amp it was like coming home. I like sag and the dynamic, organic feel you get from it.


Oh yes indeed. Huge difference. Amp, speaker, pickup (single coil/humbucker) is the descending order of importance in creating or emulating a sound. Everything else (strings, fret board, body, bridge...) are minor details that few players are really able to leverage. Get the right amp, speakers and pups and the rest you either have in your hands or you don't.

Per point 1, I think we'll agree to disagree. I can, and most of my musician friends can, hear the difference. If by the average guitarist, you mean some wanker playing in Guitar Center, then yes. If you mean people that actually play and get paid for it, not so much. People that think that they get good sound from an iPod probably don't know the difference.

Per point 2, Again, we'll agree to disagree. it probably depends upon what sort of sound you are looking for. if you are used to, and looking for preamp distortion, there isn't much difference. If you are looking for the power tube break-up, the Class A will ring very differently.

Per point 3 Tube rectified amps that are Class AB have sag. Class A amps have no sag due to constant power consumption. Each have their moments and I use both. I am not a big Marshall fan myself, give me an AC30 or 5E1 Fender Champ - though I do play with something else these days. Niel Young's sound from the Buffalo Springfield or Tonight the Nights eras are great examples. The stories of people putting a Variac in front of the amp to accentuate the sag are legion.

Per point 4, passionate agreement

[Bryan Morgan]

SS is getting pretty good these days. I would wager dollars to donuts that in a double blind test that the average guitarist would not be able to tell the difference. And certainly the listening audience would never be able to tell.

I'd have to throw out a technicality here... Something like an AxeFx or properly profiled Kemper may be mostly indistinguishable from a tube amp, but I haven't heard any actual solid state amps that didn't sound like solid state amps. Whether thats good or not is subjective of course...

[Neal Clayton]

Allegedly, Eric Johnson claims to be able to tell whether the electricity powering his rig was hydro or nuclear generated!

The list of myths is essentially endless.

I've heard other extreme claims attributed to Eric Johnson. I don't understand the buzz about EJ. He is a truly talented and gifted player, but I think he is just extremely OCD about his guitar and rig. If he is able to hear the things he claims to be able to hear, more power to him. But the audience certainly can't hear the difference, whether they be live or listening to a recording.

Sorry to bump an old thread but the last time I saw Eric Johnson (House of Blues in NOLA) there was a HORRIBLE hum coming from some raggedy old piece of gear he had up there. After a couple of songs he apologized and made some comment about "these things happen when you have to use antique gear" and just had the mix guy cut him out between songs, so that it wasn't as noticeable to the audience, but he never figured out what it was and fixed it.

I was trying to explain to my girlfriend at the time while we were on the way to the show that "no one drives around in the car listening to EJ, it's just a good show because he sounds good and he's a great live player". Needless to say she didn't get it, all she had to say about the show on the drive home was "that hum was awful".

[Julie Moriarty]

Sorry to bump an old thread...

I'm glad you did. There's a lot of interesting info here.

[John Coloccia]

There's SOME truth to Eric's OCD, but he's over the top I think if he took a couple of months and worked with someone, we could get him up and running with modern equipment and maintain whatever it is he wants to hear. Some of the fuzzes can be difficult to duplicate just due to the scarcity of the components and the fact that a lot of the vintage components varied wildly in their specs. It's not just that it's vintage equipment....it's a specific example of the equipment that has the magic. Everything else in his setup is really straight-forward and can be exactly duplicated in reliable ways.

Incidentally, there are some pedals where I can tell the difference between a wall wart and a battery. It has to do with how they filter the power differently, source current differently, etc....mostly to do with the initial attack of the note. There's no reason for it, though, because we understand what's going on pretty well these days.