Best small Neanderthal tool collection to complement power shop

[Ari Friedman]

I have a tiny (about 10'x8' work area; everything must store in a 10'x3' space each night) workshop in my house that contains a bunch of power tools of widely varying quality (nice router/table, miserable table saw with nice blade, ok drill press, etc.)--all in benchtop sizes. I have mostly done small cabinets/bookshelves so far, but would like to get into nicer stuff as well as make the casework more precise.

I'm considering slowly acquiring a handful of reasonably nice hand tools which would complement the less elegant tools I currently use. I have some sense of what I need (plane, saw, marking gauge...) but no real idea as to the specifics of what I should get for maximum versatility as well as complementing the power tools I already have (block plane? tenon saw?), and really no idea at all what brands to get that would be in a reasonable price range (either used or new).

So...help? My priorities are versatility (I'd rather buy a few high quality tools than a set of cheap ones, but budget is pretty limited), complementing my existing tools, and size.

Thanks!

[bob blakeborough]

You say budget is limited... How limited? What sorts of jobs are you mainly wanting trying to tackle by hand? Stock prep work such as getting rough boards ready for use? Joinery work more such as dovetails, mortise and tenon etc? Finishing work such as surface prep for finish etc? I realize you could easily say all, but is there some form of work you are currently doing with power tools that you would like to move more towards hand tools? It can all have a great effect on which tools might better serve you in the immediate future if you are on a limited budget, while you can add more as needed in the future...

[Prashun Patel]

I would acquire them based on what yr project requires. I don't mean to be glib, but without focus, it'd be easy to spend more on handtools than all of yr powertools.

Lee Valley (Veritas) and Lie Nielsen generally are generally regarded as excellent quality for all hand tools. Lie Nielsen makes high quality, traditional style tools. Veritas makes high quality tools that attempt to improve on history. They get it right surprisingly most of the time. Their prices tend to be a little less than LN.

To start, I think a good set of bench chisels and a good sharpening system like the Worksharp is the best place to start. Learning how to tweak and chop with a chisel is the IMHO single best skill in hand tools to acquire. If you can do this, you can fix your shortcomings in most other areas.

[Sean Hughto]

I'd buy:

A LN 7.

A Titemark wheel-type marking gauge.

A 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, and 3/4 LN socket chisel.

A Gramercy dovetail saw, plus the sash or rip/cross cut tenon pair.

A medium sized Aurio rasp.

A Dave's shave or two and maybe the LN spokeshaves as well.

A LN 4.

Some hand scrapers, file, and burnisher.

A LN hand beader.

A LN rabbet block.

Those would be an excellent start.

[Ari Friedman]

There are a lot of comments about focusing on the tools I'll need for projects in the immediate future. So here's a list:

• Picture frames of various sizes from small to 25x35". Have dimensioned maple. Plan is to cut to size at the table saw and then use half lap joinery at the router table. If I had a sharp plane or chisel I might consider using the (powered) miter saw instead to cut miters, then shave the miter exactly with a hand tool, spline at the router table and shave the spline with a hand tool.
• Bathroom mirrored medicine cabinet. Have the cabinet cut already (rabbeted joints and back in 1/2" oak ply). Next step is to make the frame (plan is for half lap joints and a rabbet at the router table) out of dimensioned solid oak. The board has warped slightly while acclimating in my "shop," but I think the joints should be pretty square nonetheless. A hand tool to help precisely fit the joinery would be useful.
  
• Miscellaneous projects to make the "shop" work better in the limited space

You say budget is limited... How limited? What sorts of jobs are you mainly wanting trying to tackle by hand? Stock prep work such as getting rough boards ready for use? Joinery work more such as dovetails, mortise and tenon etc? Finishing work such as surface prep for finish etc? I realize you could easily say all, but is there some form of work you are currently doing with power tools that you would like to move more towards hand tools? It can all have a great effect on which tools might better serve you in the immediate future if you are on a limited budget, while you can add more as needed in the future...

I'd say $50-75/tool would leave me buying a tool every month or two, which is a pace I'm fine with (leaves me enough time to learn each one).

I would acquire them based on what yr project requires. I don't mean to be glib, but without focus, it'd be easy to spend more on handtools than all of yr powertools.

Sage advice. Part of the problem though is that I have some sense of what the tools are for but I rarely am willing to wait a week or more to get the tool to finish the project. So I use an alternative method with the tools I have, which often takes longer and looks a little sloppier but gets the job done. For instance, I often want to pull a few hundredths of an inch off a board or shave a plug flush, but the block plane I have is simply not sharp enough (have plans to get it sharpened, but it'll be a few months before it happens, and it's a modern Stanley anyway which are by all accounts not particularly good). So I use rough grit sandpaper on a sanding block instead, or a flush bit in the router.

Lee Valley (Veritas) and Lie Nielsen generally are generally regarded as excellent quality for all hand tools. Lie Nielsen makes high quality, traditional style tools. Veritas makes high quality tools that attempt to improve on history. They get it right surprisingly most of the time. Their prices tend to be a little less than LN.

I'd looked at Veritas. Their saws seem pretty affordable. In particular these:
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...884,68511&ap=1

[/quote=Prashun Patel;1943328]To start, I think a good set of bench chisels and a good sharpening system like the Worksharp is the best place to start. Learning how to tweak and chop with a chisel is the IMHO single best skill in hand tools to acquire. If you can do this, you can fix your shortcomings in most other areas.[/QUOTE]

That's very clear guidance, thank you. Given the budget constraint, I'll likely only be able to buy one chisel for awhile (have some Craftsman chisels in various sizes to hold me through in the meantime). What bench chisel should that be? 1/2"? Primary uses would be in fine-tuning joinery and squaring up mortises, etc.

Do you have any recommendations on places (books, Youtube videos, etc.) to learn the finer points of chisel work?

My brother is a mechanical engineer who forges in his spare time and is very into knife sharpening, so I'll likely have him teach me hand sharpening rather than buying a Worksharp. I already have some of the equipment, and I believe he has some spare stones.

[Prashun Patel]

Ari, I'm not the handtool guru that guys like the other guys are, so take my advice with a grain of salt vs the others, but...

for frames, a good hand plane with a shooting board (built) would be great. It'll give you miters like you never had before.

I also think you need first to get comfortable with sharpening. Any plane/chisel will be frustrating if not sharpened.

$50-70/tool is light unless you plan to get into rehabbing used.

[Sean Hughto]

Here's another thought. Buy yourself a copy of Aldren Watson's Handtools, Their Ways and Workings and read through it. Maybe the Anarchist's Tool Chest by Mr. Schwarz as well. These will fill your head with a ton of practical handtool knowledge. Then buy what makes sense for your projects and chosen working methods.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

For instance, I often want to pull a few hundredths of an inch off a board or shave a plug flush, but the block plane I have is simply not sharp enough (have plans to get it sharpened, but it'll be a few months before it happens, and it's a modern Stanley anyway which are by all accounts not particularly good).

Why will it be months before a plane gets sharpened? Is it lack of something to sharpen on? If that's the case, that would be be a good purchase. No tool is very good when it isn't sharpened properly, and some tools are dangerous when they aren't sharpened properly.

A more modern stanley may not be the best tool out there, but properly sharp it should be good enough for most jobs. Your craftsman chisels could very well do the job for most things, they might just not hold an edge as well, or sneak into dovetails as well.

[David Weaver]

It sounds like you should start with sharpening instead of more tools. Not necessarily something expensive, just a medium stone and a fine stone. But having a block plane that isn't going to be sharpened for a while is no place to start. It's, fortunately for you, probably the easiest tool you could have to sharpen and use, too, so start with that.

If you are on a budget, you want to try to buy vintage tools that have been in use by people who actually know how to use them. You might even spend $6 and put an ad up in the classifieds to do it ($6 will do you for the year, and you can put up as many requests as you want. ... like if you can stomach something once every 2 months, just do that then).

A tool that is proper (for example, sean sold a couple of vintage planes a few weeks ago) really will cost little more than one that's an unknown. but for a beginner, the difference is very well spent.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I think you need to step back a bit and rethink Art. You alluded to waiting a few months before getting the block plane sharpened which tells me you intend to send it out. I don't want to sound harsh, but the single most important skill in hand tool woodworking is the art of sharpening. Without sharpening equipment and supplies almost any hand tool you buy that has an edge will either not work properly out of the box or will be useless shortly after being used for the first time. Sharpening is the gateway skill upon which almost all other skills are based. Dull tools will not perform and will provide you endless frustration and poor results. Add to that the fact that dull tools require more force to move through the wood, and you greatly increase the risk of having a tool slip and either ruin a workpiece or cut you very badly. Succintly put, dull tools are dangerous.

Please do yourself a favor and research sharpening by BOTH using the search function here on the Creek and going out and actually talking with experienced hand tool woodworkers. Aacquiring a sharpening kit and becoming proficient in its use is of far more use than acquiring tools that have no sharpening supplies to support them. Sharpening is a broad area with twice as many opinions and methods as there are woodworkders so it is far beyond the scope of this thread to go there.

[Jeff L Miller]

All of the above is excellent advice and the tools recommended are high quality. I'll give you the perspective of a bottom feeder to work within your budget a little better.

I would start with an older c1910-1940's Stanley or (Millers Falls, Sargent, Union to name a few) hand plane and learn its workings. These can be had at yard sales, Craigslist, estate sales, flea markets etc. I would get a #4 size which can often be had for around $10, one of the most popular sizes. I would also get a block plane, I like those with the adjustable throat and a low angle blade. There is a glut of information on the internet regarding tune up and sharpening a plane...you can go overboard or learn to make it work, up to you. Make a shooting board like Prashun recommends and you're set for miters etc.

Ditto for the chisels and a mallet, garage sales are your friend. Throw in a couple of Disston saws and you are on your way. Dedicate a small section of your wall to hang the tools.....please don't drill any holes in them, and they should be within easy reach.

Once you are comfortable with hand tools, then I would jump in and buy a high quality plane, you won't be learning on it, you will have experience, and you will immediately appreciate the high quality. You don't mention your location, but the folks here would all lend a hand I'm sure if you stopped by...we all love to talk tools. This site is one of my favorites for information on hand tools http://www.cianperez.com/Wood/WoodDo...DEX_How_To.htm

Jeff

[Jim Koepke]

Ari,

Welcome to the Creek. Your profile doesn't indicate a location. You may live near another member who would be willing to offer some test drives of tools and pointers on getting your blades sharp.

This is always an easy question for many folks... "Can you help me spend my money?"

For instance, I often want to pull a few hundredths of an inch off a board or shave a plug flush, but the block plane I have is simply not sharp enough (have plans to get it sharpened, but it'll be a few months before it happens, and it's a modern Stanley anyway which are by all accounts not particularly good). So I use rough grit sandpaper on a sanding block instead, or a flush bit in the router.

Without a well sharpened blade, it is premature to curse any Stanley planes. They have marketed some real dogs over the years. Some will not hold a blade square to the base and many other problems, but if the blade is not sharp, it really can not be determined if there is a problem with the tool.

One of the most important skills a woodworker can possess is the ability to sharpen a blade to razor like sharpness. Working with dull tools is not only frustrating, it is dangerous.

In the few years since finding Saw Mill Creek, my sharpening skills have improved dramatically. My cheap Stanley block planes used to make dust when cutting end grain. When my sharpening improved to take of tissue thin shavings from end grain it seemed to change my world. Yes, my Lie-Nielsen block plane is a great improvement, but the cheap Stanley block planes still have a place in my shop. One of them was almost sold, the deal fell through, and now I am glad to still have the plane instead of the money.

To purchase tools in the price range you mention will be difficult. My suggestion would be to buy a 4 piece set of the Narex chisels many of the members here have been happy to have bought. I have no experience with them, so I can not say for sure. If nothing else, they will give you lots of practice learning to sharpen.

My tools were mostly acquired used. This required a lot of work to rehabilitate and repair tools and an occasional dud was purchased.

Sean offered a list of some great tools. Unfortunately it has a price in excess of $1,000.

Tight mark is an excellent tool and is worth the purchase price. It is possible to mark with a lesser gauge. It is also possible to make your own and learn some skills and have an excellent tool.

Also learning what tool needs can be filled with inexpensive used tools and which ones shouldn't be anything but the best you can find is another thing.

An LN #7 is a great plane, but for what is normally done with a jointer, an old Stanley/Bailey #7 will suffice.

My wife is after me to get ready to head into town.

If you are not totally confused by now, I will try again later.

jtk

[David Weaver]

I had the modern stanley block plane to test a replacement iron, btw, and while it wasn't a wonderful example of the taste that a nice vintage stanley possesses, it was perfectly capable of doing good work.

[bob blakeborough]

As a starting place, if you are only going to buy one plane, probably the most versatile will be a Low Angle Jack. I like the LV but many others love the LN. There are cheaper Chinese knock offs that still are very functional but do not have the same resale if that is ever a concern. This plane with give you the ability to do the most amount of planing work decently with one plane, and even one blade if you don't mind a bit more sharpening. You can remove lots of wood quickly, square and flatten, and even smooth pretty decently. It is also one of your better options for shooting so you can make yourself a shooting board and really help with your picture framing and other jobs. A good little block plane will always come in handy as well...

Now if you are looking for a full compliment of planes focusing on specific tasks, a foreplane (say a #6), a jointer (#7 or 8) and a smoother (#4 or 4.5) will get all your dimensions and finishing under control. Bevel up or bevel down with create an entire different level of opinions from everyone, but either way you go just get something decent and you will be fine. Most of it comes down to what you get used too. You can buy new or good vintage for these. If you go vintage and are not into rehabbing tools, look for a good, reputable vendor who won't rip you off. Many people here could recommend someone I am sure.

The LV saws are most definitely going to give you some of the very best value in something that works very well. You can also go vintage if you are into rehabbing and sharpening, but personally with a saw I would start with something you know works well so down the road if you get into saw sharpening, you will know what they should be performing like. A Dovetail saw and a crosscut saw will let you do almost everything smaller scale without issue.

A decent set of bench chisels is always nice. Cheap and decent look at Narex at LV. You get an entire set right off the bat and they sharpen well and hold a pretty good edge. A bit more money, the new Stanley Sweetheart chisels surprised me. They sharpen well, hold and edge and feel pretty darn nice to work with in the hand. If you like vintage socket chisels and don't want to break the bank, these are great. There is definitely a the good argument about buying a few premium chisels and adding more as time goes on and you require the various sizes because the reality is you will find yourself using 2 or 3 sizes most often so no need to go nuts on an entire set off the hop. If you go this route, the new LV's or the well proven LN's are excellent and worth every penny.

Of course having any of these tools won't help you diddley-squat if you don't learn how to sharpen them well. I would invest in a good tool sharpening book. There are many ways of sharpening and everybody says their way is best, but really it is more about learning a way that is easy for you and sticking to it and learning it well. I like water stones and use a guide. It works extremely well for me but many others prefer 100% freehand. Other also prefer using machines. Totally up to you but in the end you just need a truly sharp tool and how you get there is up to you...

Now once you start down the slippery slope you start getting into specialty tools such as shoulder planes, router planes, plow planes, rabbet planes, mortise chisels, dovetail chisels, fishtail chisels, etc, etc, etc, etc... You can, and will if you get hooked, spend more money on handtools than on equipment, but personally I feel like there is nothing quite as satisfying as the feeling I get from completing something by hand vs using equipment. There is always a place for both of course, but I love the almost romantic feeling I get from working in the methods of days gone by...

[Ari Friedman]

Why will it be months before a plane gets sharpened? Is it lack of something to sharpen on? If that's the case, that would be be a good purchase. No tool is very good when it isn't sharpened properly, and some tools are dangerous when they aren't sharpened properly.

A more modern stanley may not be the best tool out there, but properly sharp it should be good enough for most jobs. Your craftsman chisels could very well do the job for most things, they might just not hold an edge as well, or sneak into dovetails as well.

Because that's when my bro will next visit with his stones :-)

Maybe I should prioritize sharpening above new tools then?