spiral cutterheads -are they worth it?

[Rod Sheridan]

Larry, it is indeed a cartridge knife system, I change the blades in my jointer in about 3 or 4 minutes with no adjustment required. Almost as fast as Tersa.......Rod.

[Jim Matthews]

If you're in a production shop, your requirements are very different than us hobbyists.

If you're just running an occasional board, the footprint of the machine should be weighted heavily to determine your choice.
That said, if you buy a standard knife home user machine, you'll not likely resell it.

[howard s hanger]

my main deal is the noise. I work out of my garage off an alleyway so I have neighbors all around me. My current Dewalt 735 sounds like a 747 taking off and I cringe everytime I use it because I'm worried about bothering them. I can't really use it in the evening due to the noise. The straight knife version of the A3-31 is a lot quieter than the 735, or so I'm told, but having the spiral cutterhead would be even quieter. I like that idea. I'm a hobbiest as well and wouldn't be using it all that often so I would imagine the cutters will last me a long time - probably many years.

[Barry Richardson]

Spiral heads on all machines where I work and on my jointer at home. I wound not even consider a jointer or planer at this point without one. If you keep nails and dirty wood away from them, they last a looong time before you even need to rotate the blades. BTW those lunch box planers are all loud by nature. Most any big planer will be quieter.

[Matt Winterowd]

Having worked with both Tersa and Byrd heads in a production shop, Ive come to the opposite conclusion as Larry. I'd choose Byrd (or Grizzly) every time. Way less tearout with the spiral heads, and I have yet to see a groove from a nick on the Byrd. Happens weekly on the Tersas.

[Mark Carlson]

I got an A3-31 about a year ago with the byrd head installed. The sound issue was big for me because I have close neighbors. Even if that wasn't an issue I wouldn't go back to a straight knife jointer or planer.

~mark

[Greg Portland]

my main deal is the noise. I work out of my garage off an alleyway so I have neighbors all around me. My current Dewalt 735 sounds like a 747 taking off and I cringe everytime I use it because I'm worried about bothering them. I can't really use it in the evening due to the noise. The straight knife version of the A3-31 is a lot quieter than the 735, or so I'm told, but having the spiral cutterhead would be even quieter. I like that idea. I'm a hobbiest as well and wouldn't be using it all that often so I would imagine the cutters will last me a long time - probably many years.

I don't see where noise should be a part of your decision. Large industrial machines are going to be loud, especially with dust collection. Yes, the Dewalt is a higher pitched noise but that doesn't mean your neighbors will sleep like babies with the Hammer J/P.

[Van Huskey]

I don't see where noise should be a part of your decision. Large industrial machines are going to be loud, especially with dust collection. Yes, the Dewalt is a higher pitched noise but that doesn't mean your neighbors will sleep like babies with the Hammer J/P.

I dunno, IF we assume the 10dB drop Felder is claiming over their straight knives and probably another 10dB over a Dewalt screamer that is a BIG difference.


RE straight vs insert heads, we go round and round about this a lot, the thing to remember is all straight knife heads are NOT created equal. You must judge the individual heads not just insert vs straight, we fall into that trap a lot. The Hammer straight knife journal head is very good for its price range, but in my opinion the Byrd was/is better, I would assume the new head is at least as good as the Byrd since they are using it for their full line, if Felder had developed it just for the Hammer line I would be more dubious.

To the point about support regarding cutter bits MOST cutter head bits are available from multiple sources since they tend to repurpose them. I don't think I would worry about Felder if theirs is proprietary BUT I would feel more comfortable is it was a bigger company like SCMI.

[howard s hanger]

I went ahead and changed my order to include the new spiral head. What the heck. You can't take it with you.

[Larry Edgerton]

Having worked with both Tersa and Byrd heads in a production shop, Ive come to the opposite conclusion as Larry. I'd choose Byrd (or Grizzly) every time. Way less tearout with the spiral heads, and I have yet to see a groove from a nick on the Byrd. Happens weekly on the Tersas.

I am not sure how much of it is the head and how much of it is the planer, but I have no problem with tearout with an SCM 520 running the Tersa, and the amount of sanding I do "not" have to do is awesome. The finish is as good as I have ever seen. That being said, I am keeping an eye out for another big PM that I will add a Byrd head to for rough planing just for that knicked knife thing. I don't like the shallow scallops that come off of a Byrd head.

Part of the reason that the Tersa type heads with minimal knife projection work so well is that because of the shallower cuts they have speeded up the cutterhead. My head turns at 7200 rpm, with four knives. At 16 fpm finish speed that is 150 cuts per inch, and in 4th gear at 72fpm it is still running at 33 cuts per inch. I don't remember exactly what my old PM 180 ran, but it was in the 4000 rpm range if I remember correctly.

I did some research on noise in woodworking machinery, and what causes the majority of the noise is air compressing and decompressing. Try moving your chipbreaker closer to the head if you want to see how this works. On some machines where it is adjustable you can tone down the sound by moving it back a touch so it still does its job, but just barely. I did this on an old Delta I used to have. I was going to try drilling holes in it but bought a PM 180 instead. That was loud too, but not as bad.

On old school machines you have that huge gullet with the jib and room for a wrench that can grab air, compress it as it closes on the chipbreaker, and releasing it after it passes.

When you look at the Tersa head there is almost no gap at all as there is no need for tools. The knife projection is much less an old school head as are most machines from Europe, probably some of it for the reasons that Rod mentioned. They use this same head on jointers which would have to meet the MAN standard. Because there is no volume of air to compress, there will be less noise. This is why the Byrd heads are quiet, there is not a continious knife, so air pressure can stay more stabile as it escapes around the edge of the individual cutters.

Research on how to make effective tires quiet was instrumental in quieting machines. This is where the compressed air situation was discovered. Have you noticed how quiet semis are compared to 30 years ago? Now they sneak up beside you without you knowing they are there, and most of that is tire design changes.

Howard.

Congrats! A fine machine with either head, and you will be proud to have it in your shop. I know I would be....

Larry

[David Kumm]

Larry, you've mentioned one of the reasons I like the Byrd. It is saving many PM 180,221,224 from the graveyard. They are great candidates for the head and will outperform many new planers for another lifetime. They work well with DD speeds of 3600 or belt speeds of 4500. Dave

[Larry Frank]

I think that the spiral cutter heads are great. However, the costs are always a consideration

For a standard 15" 4-post planer

Straight HSS Blade Set $ 72
Straight Carbide $210
Byrd Heat $795

I would love to have the Byrd Head but for the amount of wood that I plane which is probably a couple hundred board feet a year, it would be very hard to justify. There is little doubt that for a production shop or someone who puts many hundreds a year through a planer, it would be a benefit.

[David Kumm]

Felder uses what is basically the ESTA disposablade system. Dave

[Van Huskey]

Larry, you've mentioned one of the reasons I like the Byrd. It is saving many PM 180,221,224 from the graveyard. They are great candidates for the head and will outperform many new planers for another lifetime. They work well with DD speeds of 3600 or belt speeds of 4500. Dave

The other nice thing about Byrds for the older PM planers is they are cheap compared to Byrds for almost any of the other old iron planers. I am curious how well they are balanced, following Larry's point I wonder how much you could speed one up via VFD and not have a "Byrd flying the coop".

[Jack Lemley]

Anyne here have experience with the Accu-Head spiral cutter head with carbide cutters (bought separately)? The Accu-Head is quite a bit cheaper than Byrd even with add on carbide bits. I have a Dwalt 735 and am looking to change the straight cutter head.

Thanks
Jack